Description: Calc application freezes on Windows 10 Using 24.2.4.2 Steps to Reproduce: 1.Open Libra Calc 2.Work for a few mins 3.Application crashes Actual Results: 1.Open Libra Calc 2.Work for a few mins 3 Save 4 Add a new Tab Expected Results: Application freezes Reproducible: Always User Profile Reset: No Additional Info: Not freeze
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Help -> About Version: 24.2.4.2 (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community Build ID: 51a6219feb6075d9a4c46691dcfe0cd9c4fff3c2 CPU threads: 16; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 19045; UI render: Skia/Vulkan; VCL: win Locale: en-IE (en_IE); UI: en-GB Calc: CL threaded
Is it stable, if you deactivate this: Tools - Options - LibreOffice - View - Use Skia for all rendering
deactivate / unchecked : Tools - Options - LibreOffice - View - Use Skia for all rendering Restarted & that seems better - so far did not freeze Whats is the issue with Skia for Win 10 and what difference does it make when deactivated
Good to hear. You could attach this file found on your computer to this bug report (User in the path is your own Windows username): C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\LibreOffice\4\cache\skia.log Skia is a graphics engine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skia_Graphics_Engine Unfortunately the Vulkan backend is not very stable. We might have to reconsider activating it by default.
Also of note: https://skia.org/docs/user/special/vulkan/ "At this time we find that many Vulkan drivers have bugs that Skia triggers for which we have no workaround. We are reporting bugs to vendors as we find them."
Created attachment 195100 [details] Log file for Vulcan graphics engine - Win 10 Log file for Vulcan graphics engine attached. Thanks for your quick response
Please check, rather than disabling the Vulkan vector render engine--the issue with calc could equally be the GPUs OpenCL handling (also controlled by the GPU driver). If you don't need OpenCL (really only for handling *large* spredsheets) I would disable that, and then see if your system is stable using calc with Vulkan rendering enabled. The latest driver, 475.06 (2024.6.4) with API 1.2.275 support, listed for the Geforce GT 710 may not be the most stable to use for skia/Vulkan vector rendering as the hw is EOL. The same GPU driver also handles the skia rendering to raster frames, when Vulkan is disabled (by selecting the "Force Skia software rendering"). Raster based frame rendering is more efficient and less demanding than the vector rendering, but both use skia libs. While for os/CPU controlled rendering, which is noticeably less performant, you'd uncheck both the "Use Skia for all rendering" and the "Force Skia software rendering" leaving just the "Use hardware acceleration" box checked. So, please check if the OpenCL handling is really the issue, not skia/Vulkan vector rendering, and let us know.
Ok - turned off GPUs OpenCL handling and turned back on Skia/Vulcan and restarted LibreOffice. Opened Calc and not freezing. Notice sometimes stalls for some time when switching tabs and eventually switches.
Disabled Skia/Vulkan with OpenCL also disabled and lagging between tabs is gone. For now I will leave it like this
OK, so unclear if it is OpenCL issue, or a mix with Vulkan on this nVidia based GPU. Either way, if it is working (more or less) with both disabled--we'll NAB this. Only if you wanted to do more, we'd need stack trace with symbols to catch the hang/freeze of the offending call, and even then would likely just point into the nvogl64 driver calls rather than our skia/gdiimpl source. Requires setup of WinDbg and download of build symbols (LibreOffice and MS Windows--nVidia doesn't post the PDB symbols for their drivers). [1] -=ref-= [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/How_to_get_a_backtrace_with_WinDbg
My take is: - with Skia/Vulkan deactiavted and OpenCL active Calc works ok - With Skia/Vulkan activated and OpenCL deactivated - still a stalling issue between tabs in Calc - With Skia/Vulkan deactivated and OpenCL deactivated - Calc works ok So I think the issue is Skia/Vulkan
If I may... I would still get the impression that there is some issue, somewhere. Even if there is nothing that LO's devs could do (on LO's code side), there seems to be something to improve, maybe about Skia, or maybe about OpenCL (or maybe about OpenGL, or...). IDK whether LO devs report such potential issues upstream, at least with the intention of potential future improvements in performance for LO/Calc.
(In reply to ady from comment #13) > If I may... > > I would still get the impression that there is some issue, somewhere. > > Even if there is nothing that LO's devs could do (on LO's code side), there > seems to be something to improve, maybe about Skia, or maybe about OpenCL > (or maybe about OpenGL, or...). > > IDK whether LO devs report such potential issues upstream, at least with the > intention of potential future improvements in performance for LO/Calc. To what end? We have adopted a denylist approach for known bad/suboptimal GPU/driver parings to prevent use of skia/Vulkan rendering--thereby forcing those systems to use skia based raster graphics framing. While for macOS we don't provide Vulkan vector graphics as Apple does not support it (using a skia/Metal implementation instead but with no denylist mechanism). We're treading water, and the GPU vendors don't help much by not releasing debug symbols (e.g. as PDB) for their driver source, meaning we can't really pursue anything "upstream". We code to published API, but specifics of Vulkan, or "legacy" OpenGL rendering (which has been stripped out of the LO code base) accelerated graphics is a quagmire with no active dev interest.