Description: In light mode, active cell selection (on macOS) shows in accent color set in macOS system settings. The grey grid lines are not visible for the selected cell. In dark mode for unknown reasons the behavior varies: the grid lines become white and are visible inside of the cell highlighting in accent color. Apple numbers uses cell highlighting color and the grid lines remain visible inside but those remain grey in dark mode (not white). LibreOffice uses a different approach. But I tend to find this an inconsistency between light and dark mode and also the white grid lines inside of the active cell highlighting look unexpected and I am not sure if value is added. Steps to Reproduce: Open Calc spreadsheet in dark mode and select a cell. Actual Results: grid lines become white and are visible inside of the cell highlighting in accent color Expected Results: inconsistency between light and dark mode and also the white grid lines inside of the active cell highlighting look unexpected and I am not sure if value is added. Two things that could be tried: a) grid lines do not turn white and keep the grey color they have by default b) for active cell highlight no grid lines are shown - analogue to light mode Would have to see what things look like if the grid just keep the same grey tone it has Reproducible: Always User Profile Reset: No Additional Info: Version: 25.2.0.0.alpha0+ (AARCH64) / LibreOffice Community Build ID: bcadc9a6ec5be2541e259f0fa18022c0661c8df7 CPU threads: 12; OS: macOS 14.6.1; UI render: Skia/Metal; VCL: osx Locale: en-US (en_US.UTF-8); UI: en-US Calc: threaded
Created attachment 196195 [details] Screenshot 2024-09-03 light mode, no grid lines
Created attachment 196196 [details] Screenshot 2024-09-03 dark mode, white grid lines
Created attachment 196198 [details] Screenshot 2024-09-03 light mode, no grid lines
The idea behind having this white line is to do what Excel/OnlyOffice/WPS do. They use this white color to ensure contrast. To the best of my knowledge, it is white even on dark mode. The white color ensures contrast because the cursor itself uses a darker color. Then if we have a light background, the cursor is more visible. And on a darker background, the white outline ensures contrast. I wouldn't oppose making this outline color configurable (via the App Colors dialog). However, making it optional feels like feature creep.
(In reply to Rafael Lima from comment #4) > The idea behind having this white line is to do what Excel/OnlyOffice/WPS > do. Wasn't there a real idea behind? Something like to make the focus rectangle visible even on a cell background close to the highlight/accent color? > I wouldn't oppose making this outline color configurable (via the App Colors > dialog). However, making it optional feels like feature creep. Me opposed strongly to introduce such an option. Rather consider to use the document color, ie. white on white and black on black (if my assumption above is correct).
Taking myself off the cc list. I understand that the active cell border is a big issue to a lot of users but the size of colors of the border are not an issue with me. I got involved with tdf#162646 was because there of the Skia on macOS drawing bugs. I understand that there LibreOffice has few (if any) volunteers available that can debug LibreOffice's vcl code on macOS, so feel free to add me back if you notice that different rendering on macOS when Skia/Metal or Skia/Raster is enabled versus Skia disabled. That is my usual test if there is a Skia on macOS bug.
Created attachment 196238 [details] Screenshot 2024-09-04 LO 24.2.5.2 NO white cell border I am not sure where the change to add white cell border highlighting was discussed. Can someone link that issue please? I am opposing that change for two reasons: - the highlighting used in 24.2 did not create any problems I was aware of. Attached is a screenshot showing the highlighting in 24.2. Can someone link complaints about this? - the additional added white cell boarder highlighting inside of the cell highlighting makes the highlight LESS visible for busy spreadsheets. When there is lots of white text, the white line obfuscates the colored highlighting making it HARDER to view the highlighted cell. Thus I claim, while implemented with good intentions, it is not achieving the intended effect. I'll add a screenshot comparing with and without the white cell board highlight and you'll hopefully see what I am referring to. I would love to see an actual screenshot of what Excel is doing in dark mode with highlighted cells. Can someone add that? @Rafael: thanks for elaborating on the thought process for this change. I don't understand what this has to do with the cursor. The cursor has a white line around it and you are of course correct, if you state that exists to increase visibility. BUT I do not think this can be transferred over 1:1 to the logic of the cell highlighting UI, since that follows other prerequisites. I am totally not suggesting to make anything customizible in regards to cell highlighting. Such things should have great defaults. Anything else like dark, light, high contrast is defined on a system level and LibreOffice should follow that as best as it can. I am also not suggesting to add any setting.
Created attachment 196239 [details] comparing 24.2 and 24.8 with a busy spreadsheet
The original ticket was bug 161204. The topic was discussed in a design meeting. (In reply to steve from comment #8) > Created attachment 196239 [details] TBH I prefer the screenshot on the left (especially if you remove the SpellCheck markers to be more compatible with your screenshot on the right).
(In reply to steve from comment #8) > Created attachment 196239 [details] > comparing 24.2 and 24.8 with a busy spreadsheet You write 24.2 and 24.8 yet the screenshot has "main build" on the left and "25.2" on the right. What is "main build" in this case?
Sorry, my mistake. I wish we had comment editing. Main build is Version: 25.2.0.0.alpha0+ (AARCH64) / LibreOffice Community Build ID: bcadc9a6ec5be2541e259f0fa18022c0661c8df7 CPU threads: 12; OS: macOS 14.6.1; UI render: Skia/Metal; VCL: osx Locale: en-US (en_US.UTF-8); UI: en-US Calc: threaded
I guess the question ATM is which versions are really being compared in the screenshot in attachment 196239 [details], on the right and on the left, respectively.
Created attachment 196303 [details] comparing 24.2 and 25.2 main build with a busy spreadsheet
screenshot updated with correct info. Note to self: just include the about window in future screenshots ☝️
(In reply to steve from comment #13) > Created attachment 196303 [details] > comparing 24.2 and 25.2 main build with a busy spreadsheet Now add a cell background color similar to the color used by the active cell surrounding marker. Better yet, set the same background color to several adjacent cells – say, nine cells forming a 3 by 3 range of cells – and focus the active cell to be the cell on the center of those 9 cells. Could you distinguish the active cell indicator easier in the newer version of LO, or in the older one?
Created attachment 196339 [details] 24.8.0.3 colored background What you are describing are edge cases. In the over 10 years I have used LibreOffice I never ran into such a situation. The blue in question isn't even part of the standard LibreOffice color palette. The attached screenshot is using the blue that comes closest to the highlight color.
Created attachment 196340 [details] 24.8.0.3 colored background
(In reply to steve from comment #16) > What you are describing are edge cases. In the over 10 years I have used > LibreOffice I never ran into such a situation. Other users have different use-cases. Some users don't create nor control their spreadsheets, but receive what others have created, with different themes and color palettes, or different needs. Your usage is not necessarily the same as every single user out there. What seems an edge case for you might be more frequent for others. Moreover, potential edge cases are sometimes exactly what needs to be tested. Testing only the default background as the only relevant evaluation case is not acceptable. > > The blue in question isn't even part of the standard LibreOffice color > palette. That's great. That means that the default color used for the active cell marker is less likely to be exactly the same as a typical background (at least using the color palette that you tested). Having said that, you don't need the same exact color in order to reduce the visibility of the active cell marker; even similar colors would do. My point was that having 2 colored lines for the marker is not just a matter of artistic subjective opinions; there is a need, a goal to accomplish. I just hope that at some point the endless discussions about the active cell marker line will focus/care about the goals of the feature and the pros/cons of modifying some characteristic of it, instead of just (only) moving in circles around artistic subjective opinions.
Created attachment 196387 [details] Comparing LO 24.2 vs 25.2 vs Excel vs OnlyOffice Just for reference, the current cell outline (LO 24.8 and 25.2) uses the same strategy adopted by MS Excel and OnlyOffice to increase the contrast of the selected cell and make it easier to see it. See attached screenshot comparing: 1) Top-left: OnlyOffice 2) Top-Right: LO 24.2 3) Bottom-Left: LO 25.2 4) Bottom-Right: Excel Online (the desktop version uses the same approach, even on dark mode) Also, to the best of my knowledge, using dark document background does not change the cell outline.
Thanks Rafael, that is very helpful.
We discussed the topic in the design meeting. The white inner rectangle has a clear purpose and competitors do the same. Alternative solutions with less contrast or conditional appearance cannot guarantee to be visible. And since not too many users complain (none for other office applications), we decided to resolve the request as WF (invalid is fine too).