Bug 41775 - Don't remove all menus when no windows are open - keep Tools and Help
Summary: Don't remove all menus when no windows are open - keep Tools and Help
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: UI (show other bugs)
(earliest affected)
3.4.3 release
Hardware: x86-64 (AMD64) Mac OS X (All)
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
Depends on:
Blocks: MacOS-Wishlist
  Show dependency treegraph
Reported: 2011-10-13 20:28 UTC by Shad Sterling
Modified: 2019-02-02 16:17 UTC (History)
8 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:

Menus showing when Main Window is open (214.39 KB, image/png)
2013-11-15 13:31 UTC, Emir Sarı
Only File menu is shown when no windows are open (226.57 KB, image/png)
2013-11-15 13:32 UTC, Emir Sarı
File menu when no windows are open (181.45 KB, image/png)
2013-11-15 13:45 UTC, Emir Sarı
File menu when a window is open (96.01 KB, image/png)
2013-11-15 13:45 UTC, Emir Sarı

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Description Shad Sterling 2011-10-13 20:28:35 UTC
I downloaded an extension while LibreOffice was running and had no windows open; after the download, I switched back to LibreOffice to install the extension, and noticed the Tools menu was gone, so I had to open a document before I could install the extension.

This makes no sense; most of the items on the Tools menu are only useful when a document is open, but every item in the last section - for example, Extension Manager - is not document specific and should remain available when no window is open.  The same applies to almost every item in the Help menu.
Comment 1 Björn Michaelsen 2011-12-23 12:34:07 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 2 Shad Sterling 2012-01-14 16:13:52 UTC
No change in 3.5.0beta2
Comment 3 Rainer Bielefeld Retired 2012-07-14 06:59:02 UTC
@Shad Sterling

Can you confirm this problem?
Comment 4 Rainer Bielefeld Retired 2012-07-14 07:12:35 UTC
Thank you for your report – unfortunately important information is missing.
May be hints on <http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport> will help you to find out what information will be useful to reproduce your problem? If you believe that that  is really sophisticated please as for Help on a user mailing list
- Write a meaningful Summary describing exactly what the problem is
- Attach screenshots with comments if you believe that that might explain the 
  problem better than a text comment. Best way is to insert your screenshots
  into a DRAW document and to add comments that explain what you want to show
- Contribute a document related step by step instruction containing every 
  key press and every mouse click how to reproduce your problem 
  (similar to example in Bug 43431)
- add information 
  -- what EXACTLY is unexpected
  -- and WHY do you believe it's unexpected (cite Help or Documentation!)
  -- concerning your OS (Version, Distribution, Language)
  -- concerning your LibO localization (UI language, Locale setting)
  –- Libo settings that might be related to your problems 
  -- how you launch LibO
  -- everything else crossing your mind after you read linked texts

Even if you can not provide all demanded information, every little new information might bring the breakthrough.

It seems you are talking aboput LibO Start Center?
Comment 5 Roman Eisele 2012-07-14 07:32:31 UTC
(In reply to comment #4)
> @reporter:
> Thank you for your report – unfortunately important information is missing.
I think I can answer for Shad Sterling here (but please correct me, Shad Sterling, if you meant something else!).

> It seems you are talking about LibO Start Center?
If I understand the original report right, Shad Sterling is talking about a different situation which just does not occur on Windows (I don't know about Linux): on MacOS and MacOS X, an application can be running *without* any open windows at all; the global menu bar of the application is still available even when all windows are closed.

In LibreOffice, this happens if you close all document windows *and* the Start Center: the menu bar is still available, but contains only three entries: the System (Apple) menu, the application menu ("LibreOffice", containing mostly "Preferences" (Options) and "Quit LibreOffice") and the "File" menu. But there is no "Tools" menu and no "Help" menu, and this is what Shad Sterling is talking about.

* LibreOffice 3.4.0, OOO340m1 (Build:12)
* LibreOffice 3.4.6, OOO340m1 (Build:602)
* LibreOffice, Build-ID: 7122e39-92ed229-498d286-15e43b4-d70da21
* LibreOffice (Build ID: 3e2b862)
and also with
* AOO 3.4.0
all with German langpack installed, all on MacOS X 10.6.8 (Intel).

Shad Sterling is right, "this makes no sense", especially from the point of view of MacOS and MacOS X users. MacOS (7, 8, 9) and MacOS X (10.x) applications which conform to Apple's Human Interface Guidelines (HIG) *never* hide unused menus, they just disable them; if I remember correctly, Apple required this explicitely at least in the older versions of the HIG (I did not read the last revisions).

If a application is very complex (like LibreOffice), it can temporarily exchange *some* of the menus to adapt to the current editing situation, just like LibreOffice shows different Menus in Writer, Calc, Impress, etc. But at least the standard menus, which are, according to Apple's HIG, the System (Apple) menu, the Application menu ("LibreOffice", does not exist on Windows?!), the menus "File", "Edit", often "Windows", and "Help", should *never* be hidden. If no entry of such a menu is applicable, e.g. in the "Edit" menu when no documents are open, just disable the complete menu, but do not hide it.

So, at least on MacOS X, the menus "LibreOffice", "File", "Edit", "View", "Tools", "Windows", and "Help" should be visible under all circumstances. This is already true and working fine as long as the Start Center window is open. We just need to change the situation when no window at all is open: in this situation, the menu bar should look and behave just like when the Start Center is open.
Comment 6 Roman Eisele 2012-07-14 07:39:54 UTC
@Thorsten Behrens:
This is a simple and compelling bug report about a simple MacOS X UI issue; the problem is not dramatic, but on the other hand it should be rather easy to fix this, so please take a look at it. Maybe this could be an "Easy hack"? Sometimes such little UI improvements do most to make the application look professional. Thank you in advance!
Comment 7 Shad Sterling 2012-07-14 17:00:53 UTC
@Roman Eisele, you have it right.  I also see the same behavior with on OS X 10.7.4.

@Rainer Bielefeld, this bug is, as Roman elaborated, not about the Start Center, but about the LibreOffice menu items on the OS X menu bar when no windows are open.  (Bug #41776 is about the Start Center.)  Is any more information needed to understand this bug?
Comment 8 Emir Sarı 2013-11-15 10:54:13 UTC

Could it be possible to fix this small but annoying issue? Or maybe some code pointers that would help people to have a look at it? It is a small but very Mac-unlike detail of LibreOffice. 

I appreciate any help about this. :)
Comment 9 Jan Holesovsky 2013-11-15 11:17:01 UTC
Emir: This is OSX specific, right? - would be great to attach a screenshot to show what's going on :-)
Comment 10 Emir Sarı 2013-11-15 13:31:51 UTC
Created attachment 89269 [details]
Menus showing when Main Window is open
Comment 11 Emir Sarı 2013-11-15 13:32:35 UTC
Created attachment 89270 [details]
Only File menu is shown when no windows are open
Comment 12 Emir Sarı 2013-11-15 13:33:29 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 13 Emir Sarı 2013-11-15 13:45:09 UTC
Created attachment 89271 [details]
File menu when no windows are open

This menu should be removed I think, because it causes inconsistency among menus
Comment 14 Emir Sarı 2013-11-15 13:45:52 UTC
Created attachment 89272 [details]
File menu when a window is open

This menu should appear
Comment 15 QA Administrators 2015-04-19 03:20:44 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 16 Shad Sterling 2015-04-23 22:55:03 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 17 QA Administrators 2016-09-20 09:33:06 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 18 Shad Sterling 2016-09-20 17:12:36 UTC
No change in bug behavior in on OS X 10.11.6.
Comment 19 Jim DeLaHunt 2017-03-21 21:03:02 UTC
No change in bug behavior in on OS X El Capitan 10.11.6.
Comment 20 QA Administrators 2018-03-22 03:38:33 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 21 Jim DeLaHunt 2018-03-22 05:42:00 UTC
No change in bug behavior in on OS X El Capitan 10.11.6.

LibreOffice… About LibreOffice version information is:
Build ID: ea7cb86e6eeb2bf3a5af73a8f7777ac570321527
CPU threads: 8; OS: Mac OS X 10.11.6; UI render: default; 
Locale: en-CA (en.UTF-8); Calc: group