There are quite a few accessibility issues with dialogs containing tabs on Mac OS X. The accessibility role of the tabs is set as a NSAccessibilityButtonRole. This makes LibreOffice announce tabs as buttons instead of tabs it is not possible to use the VoiceOver cursor to press the tabs (change tabs). The VoiceOver Cursor does not read the content of the tabs, you can however read the content with keyboard focus.
Could you please give some example of such a dialog? I tried 3 of them (right-click text -> Paragraph..., right-click text -> Characters... and File > Properties...) and VoiceOver is consistently crashing on them (crashes then reopens than crashes again in infinite cycle until you dismiss the dialogs).
Just adding I am trying with LO master and OS X 10.8.4.
The three dialogs you mention are all such dialogs. As I mentiond in a mail to you I tried changing the role to NSAccessibilityTabGroupRole which makes it possible to switch tabs and access the controls contained in the tab. But there are some serious issues with text controls that makes VoiceOver behave pretty much as you describe. Moving away from the text field to a checkbox seems to make the flickering stop. On Monday I should have access to a computer again and I'll try to take a closer look at this. In other programs VoiceOver reports this type of tabs as tab x of y.
I inspected some other programs and their tabbed dialogs. It seems they use AXRadioButton with AXRoleDescription = "tab". Another observation is that controls that belong to a tab is children of AXTabGroup. In LibreOffice they are Children of the AXButton (tab). When a tab is selected in LibreOffice we get the hierarchy <AXApplication: "LibreOffice"> If not selected we get: <AXApplication: "LibreOffice"> <AXWindow: "The name of the dialog"> <AXTabGroup> <AXButton: "The name of the tab"> When the tab is selected it should still have the same hierarchy as when it's not selected.
Confirmed:4.2.1.1:OSX I tired LO > new writer document, File > Properties. Click top row and bottom row and they switch which is total unnative and irritation behavior. Should not happen. NEW.
Just for the record: http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/vcl/osx/a11yrolehelper.mm#81 Here's offical Apple api I found: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Cocoa/Reference/ApplicationKit/Protocols/NSAccessibility_Protocol/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/constant_group/Roles The problem is the description doesn't give sufficient hints. So with this: "NSAccessibilityRoleAttribute. This required attribute identifies the type of the accessibility object. Cocoa defines a large number of role values, such as NSAccessibilityApplicationRole, NSAccessibilityRadioButtonRole, and NSAccessibilityScrollAreaRole. The value of the role attribute is for programmatic identification purposes only (an assistive application will never present the value of the role attribute to a user) and therefore does not need to be localized. See the NSAccessibility protocol description for a list of all the roles defined in Cocoa." from https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/Accessibility/cocoaAXOverview/cocoaAXOverview.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20001057-BAJBCJHJ It's quite difficult to find the good value. For tab, I took a look too at mozab, https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/AT-APIs/Gecko/Roles/ROLE_PAGETAB, they use NSAccessibilityGroupRole
** Please read this message in its entirety before responding ** To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today, LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed bugs which have not been touched for over a year. There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in getting confirmation that the bug is still present. If you have time, please do the following: Test to see if the bug is still present on a currently supported version of LibreOffice (5.0.4 or later) https://www.libreoffice.org/download/ If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the version of LibreOffice and your operating system, and any changes you see in the bug behavior the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a short comment that includes your version of LibreOffice and Operating System Please DO NOT Update the version field Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker) Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular meaning that is not appropriate in this case) If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a REGRESSION. To do so: 1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your bug pertains to a feature added after 3.3) http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/ 2. Test your bug 3. Leave a comment with your results. 4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to "inherited from OOo"; 4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add "regression" to keyword Feel free to come ask questions or to say hello in our QA chat: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=libreoffice-qa Thank you for your help! -- The LibreOffice QA Team This NEW Message was generated on: 2015-12-20
** Please read this message in its entirety before responding ** To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today, LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed bugs which have not been touched for over a year. There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in getting confirmation that the bug is still present. If you have time, please do the following: Test to see if the bug is still present on a currently supported version of LibreOffice (5.2.7 or 5.3.3 https://www.libreoffice.org/download/ If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the version of LibreOffice and your operating system, and any changes you see in the bug behavior If the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a short comment that includes your version of LibreOffice and Operating System Please DO NOT Update the version field Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker) Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular meaning that is not appropriate in this case) If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a REGRESSION. To do so: 1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your bug pertains to a feature added after 3.3) http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/ 2. Test your bug 3. Leave a comment with your results. 4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to "inherited from OOo"; 4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add "regression" to keyword Feel free to come ask questions or to say hello in our QA chat: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=libreoffice-qa Thank you for helping us make LibreOffice even better for everyone! Warm Regards, QA Team MassPing-UntouchedBug-20170522
The behaviour described in comment #5 is still present (shifting of the bottom and top row on File -> Properties), so this has probably not improved Version: 5.4.0.3 Build ID: 7556cbc6811c9d992f4064ab9287069087d7f62c CPU threads: 2; OS: Mac OS X 10.12.6; UI render: default; Locale: en-US (en_US.UTF-8); Calc: group
** Please read this message in its entirety before responding ** To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today, LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed bugs which have not been touched for over a year. There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in getting confirmation that the bug is still present. If you have time, please do the following: Test to see if the bug is still present with the latest version of LibreOffice from https://www.libreoffice.org/download/ If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the information from Help - About LibreOffice. If the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a comment that includes the information from Help - About LibreOffice. Please DO NOT Update the version field Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker) Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular meaning that is not appropriate in this case) If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a REGRESSION. To do so: 1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your bug pertains to a feature added after 3.3) from http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/ 2. Test your bug 3. Leave a comment with your results. 4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to 'inherited from OOo'; 4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add 'regression' to keyword Feel free to come ask questions or to say hello in our QA chat: https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.freenode.net/#libreoffice-qa Thank you for helping us make LibreOffice even better for everyone! Warm Regards, QA Team MassPing-UntouchedBug
Looking at this, it seems like the tabs are still announced as buttons in VoiceOver, so I guess this is still present Version: 6.3.0.0.alpha0+ Build ID: ce2b98580b9f36d6f358bd2c9c027d3d82cb33d7 CPU threads: 2; OS: Mac OS X 10.13.6; UI render: default; VCL: osx; TinderBox: MacOSX-x86_64@49-TDF, Branch:master, Time: 2019-01-30_01:04:02 Locale: en-US (en_US.UTF-8); UI-Language: en-US Calc: threaded
Alex: thought you might have some thoughts here.
Hi Julien, The link you posted previously in comment 6, points to a now deprecated accessibility API. The current API that should be used : https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nsaccessibilitytabgrouprole?language=objc points to a specific tabgroup role, but again, is not particularly helpful. The subrole page also has a tabButtonSubrole : https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nsaccessibilitytabbuttonsubrole?language=objc See also this discussion here about TextMate, where a similar problem was encountered when using VoiceOver in a tabbed setting: https://github.com/textmate/bugs/issues/7 Also, it seems that the Chromium project addressed a similar issue here : https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/chromium-reviews/vK3ReXKiJi0
Dear Niklas Johansson, To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today, LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed bugs which have not been touched for over a year. There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in getting confirmation that the bug is still present. If you have time, please do the following: Test to see if the bug is still present with the latest version of LibreOffice from https://www.libreoffice.org/download/ If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the information from Help - About LibreOffice. If the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a comment that includes the information from Help - About LibreOffice. Please DO NOT Update the version field Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker) Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular meaning that is not appropriate in this case) If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a REGRESSION. To do so: 1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your bug pertains to a feature added after 3.3) from https://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/ 2. Test your bug 3. Leave a comment with your results. 4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to 'inherited from OOo'; 4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add 'regression' to keyword Feel free to come ask questions or to say hello in our QA chat: https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.freenode.net/#libreoffice-qa Thank you for helping us make LibreOffice even better for everyone! Warm Regards, QA Team MassPing-UntouchedBug
Not really sure if this is present or not. Yes, the items in e.g., paragraph formatting are still buttons, but I'm able to move the focus between them with the Voiceover cursor Version: 7.1.0.3 / LibreOffice Community Build ID: f6099ecf3d29644b5008cc8f48f42f4a40986e4c CPU threads: 4; OS: Mac OS X 10.14.6; UI render: default; VCL: osx Locale: en-US (en_US.UTF-8); UI: en-US Calc: threaded
Dear Niklas Johansson, To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today, LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed bugs which have not been touched for over a year. There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in getting confirmation that the bug is still present. If you have time, please do the following: Test to see if the bug is still present with the latest version of LibreOffice from https://www.libreoffice.org/download/ If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the information from Help - About LibreOffice. If the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a comment that includes the information from Help - About LibreOffice. Please DO NOT Update the version field Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker) Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular meaning that is not appropriate in this case) If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a REGRESSION. To do so: 1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your bug pertains to a feature added after 3.3) from https://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/ 2. Test your bug 3. Leave a comment with your results. 4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to 'inherited from OOo'; 4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add 'regression' to keyword Feel free to come ask questions or to say hello in our QA chat: https://web.libera.chat/?settings=#libreoffice-qa Thank you for helping us make LibreOffice even better for everyone! Warm Regards, QA Team MassPing-UntouchedBug
(In reply to Alex Thurgood from comment #13) > The link you posted previously in comment 6, points to a now deprecated > accessibility API. The current API that should be used : > > https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/ > nsaccessibilitytabgrouprole?language=objc > > points to a specific tabgroup role, but again, is not particularly helpful. > > The subrole page also has a tabButtonSubrole : > > https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/ > nsaccessibilitytabbuttonsubrole?language=objc Thanks for the links! Now that LibreOffice has been using the newer accessibility for a while now, let me see if I can figure out how get the LibreOffice C++ code to use these new accessibility roles. I will post again when I have any news to report.
I have submitted a fix for this bug in the following patch. It still needs to be reviewed, but with the patch I see the same announcements for tabs as in Microsoft Excel when I move the VoiceOver cursor to a tab in a tab bar: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/170389
Patrick Luby committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/c2061f21b1a88c9692a4e081280ed2c52e0b9141 tdf#67943 tabs must have radio button role and tab button subrole It will be available in 25.2.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
I have committed a fix this bug. The fix should be in tomorrow's (13 July 2024) nightly master builds: https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/current.html Note for macOS testers: the nightly master builds install in /Applications/LibreOfficeDev.app. These builds are not codesigned like regular LibreOffice releases so you will need to execute the following Terminal command after installation but before you launch /Applications/LibreOfficeDev: xattr -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/LibreOfficeDev.app
Patrick Luby committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "libreoffice-24-8": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/66aaa3850f3a3141f19c398a2efc85fde7969092 tdf#67943 tabs must have radio button role and tab button subrole It will be available in 24.8.0.2. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Patrick Luby committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "libreoffice-24-2": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/7ddb515df47af6684fd40add748371144695a888 tdf#67943 tabs must have radio button role and tab button subrole It will be available in 24.2.6. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.