Bug Hunting Session
Bug 74386 - UI: Provide obvious way to turn full-page text boundaries on/off, independent from Show non printing characters
Summary: UI: Provide obvious way to turn full-page text boundaries on/off, independent...
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
3.6.0.4 release
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: needsDevEval
: 93829 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks: Options-Dialog Formatting-Mark
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2014-02-02 15:59 UTC by dg1727
Modified: 2019-04-24 20:44 UTC (History)
11 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
Quick mock-up for text boundaries option (98.53 KB, image/png)
2015-06-10 17:30 UTC, RGB
Details

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Description dg1727 2014-02-02 15:59:55 UTC
I second https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46073#c44 
which says:  

"The [View/Text Boundaries] approach only turns corner marks on and off. No sign of full boundaries like the old days....  You are welcome to add my name to the list of people that want the full boundaries back without having to jump through hoops to do it."  

The full boundaries are available by choosing View > Nonprinting Characters.  IMO the association between "nonprinting characters" and page boundaries isn't obvious at all.  

Users should be able to enable/disable full-page boundaries independently of showing/hiding nonprinting characters.  

Several of the other commenters on the same bug 46073 said the same thing.  

Maybe in Tools > Options... > LibreOffice Writer > Formatting Aids there can be a pair of tickboxes similar to:  

Text Boundaries format:  
  [ ] Crop marks 
  [X] Full-page boundaries 

Then text boundaries in the selected format would be made visible/invisible by the main menu's View > Text Boundaries, which would have no connection at all to Nonprinting Characters.  

It would be extra lovely if the suggested Options setting would default to "Full-page boundaries" when LO is installed on a machine that didn't previously have an LO version with this option.  

I have multiple users affected by this, including some for whom this inferior usability, compared to a widely used commercial word-processor, contributed to a negative overall view of LibreOffice.  

I'm using LibreOffice 4.1.4.2 on Ubuntu 13.04.
Comment 1 Cor Nouws 2014-02-03 14:12:01 UTC
Hi dg,

(In reply to comment #0)

> Text Boundaries format:  
>   [ ] Crop marks 
>   [X] Full-page boundaries 
> 
> Then text boundaries in the selected format would be made visible/invisible
> by the main menu's View > Text Boundaries, which would have no connection at
> all to Nonprinting Characters.  

So that should toggle that what is selected in the check at the section Text boundaries? (Thus in the example above show nothing or full boundaries) ?

thanks for the idea,
Cor
Comment 2 Cor Nouws 2014-02-03 14:21:08 UTC
added to the list for the UX hackfest (means no promise, just awareness)
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/FOSDEM2014#Bug_List
Comment 3 dg1727 2014-02-04 03:09:44 UTC
(In reply to comment #1)
> (In reply to comment #0)
> 
> > Text Boundaries format:  
> >   [ ] Crop marks 
> >   [X] Full-page boundaries 
> > 
> > Then text boundaries in the selected format would be made visible/invisible
> > by the main menu's View > Text Boundaries, which would have no connection at
> > all to Nonprinting Characters.  
> 
> So that should toggle that what is selected in the check at the section Text
> boundaries? (Thus in the example above show nothing or full boundaries) ?

Yes, the suggested checkboxes would be in addition to the existing View > Text Boundaries menu item.  If V>TB is off, then neither crop marks nor full-page boundaries are ever shown.  If V>TB is on, then what was selected in Tools > Options is displayed.  

Maybe the checkboxes should be 3 radio buttons:  
  ( ) Crop marks only 
  (o) Full-page boundaries only 
  ( ) Both 

With checkboxes, if the user turns off both checkboxes, then the V>TB menu entry would do nothing, which doesn't seem right.  Thanks for stimulating me to realize this.  :-)  I still think "Full-page boundaries only" should be the default.  

Many thanks, also, for adding this enhancement to the list for contributors to consider adding at the UX Hackfest.
Comment 4 JohnHardy 2014-11-24 06:21:50 UTC
I just installed LO version 4.3.4.1 to see if Text Boundaries have been restored as suggested by dg1727, or something similar. Apparently the hack-fest came and went and this issue is unchanged. If it has been resolved and I simply can't find the Options page to enable the boundaries, I apologize and would deeply appreciate someone directing me to the proper page.

Otherwise, it is back to the AO. Yes, Text Boundaries are that important to me.

Thank you.
Comment 5 RGB 2015-06-10 17:30:19 UTC
Created attachment 116441 [details]
Quick mock-up for text boundaries option

I think the best place to put an option to choose between corner and full text boundaries is the exact place where you choose if you want text boundaries at all and its color: Configure → Options → Appearance. See the lousy mock-up attached for an initial idea (sorry for the Spanish background screenshot). 

As a comment to support the idea of a proper location for this option, note that if someone makes proper use of styles and configure Writer to ignore double spaces (I do both) non printing character are pretty useless. On the other hand, full text boundaries are fundamental when you need to deal with graphical elements and tables and that's the reason why the need to activate non printing characters (something I do not use) in order to have proper text boundaries (something I use a lot) is a bit frustrating for me and, it seems, other users.
Comment 6 RGB 2015-09-13 12:55:28 UTC
Question: is it possible to add, at least, an option to the "expert configuration" in order to enable text boundaries independently of non printing characters? This way users that really want text boundaries back all the time could have them even without adding a new UI element.
Comment 7 Cor Nouws 2015-09-14 09:24:10 UTC
*** Bug 93829 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 8 Robinson Tryon (qubit) 2015-12-13 11:20:51 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 9 burnuser 2016-01-26 07:54:19 UTC
OK, I try a summary of the problem situation and an easy to code suggestion for a solution.

Currently I see 2 Problems:

a) A misleading UI:
1.) "View - Text Boundaries" does not show full boundaries but only cornermarks.
2.) "View - non printing characters" show non printing characters + text boundaries.
And in a good UI each menu item should exactly do what it says and what a normal user expects. (Which can - in this case - not be solved with new options in the options menu.)

b) A crippled/lost feature:
1.) If I work with layout in writer, I need the full text boundaries but not the non printing characters.
2.) Somebody else would need the non printing characters but would not like to see the full boundaries.


My Suggestion for a quick solution with no need of recoding the options menu, but only rearrange the view menu a little:

1.) "View - non printing characters" show non printing characters ... and nothing else (as it says!)

2.) "View - Text Boundaries" is split in two items

realized as sub-menu options:
a) "only cornermarks"
b) "full boundaries"

or both as main items:
a) "Text Boundaries" as it is ... showing the full boundaries
b) and NEW: "Cornermarks" ... showing the cornermarks

And so the UI is clear AND everyone can easy select what he wants and needs.
Comment 10 heavy 2016-10-19 17:31:30 UTC
I second the suggestion of burnuser@gmail.com in comment 9. It should have been done that way in the first place.
Comment 11 burnuser 2017-01-08 10:56:02 UTC
Bug is still present. No changes in bug behavior.
Testsystem:
LO 5.2.3.3 on Windows Vista
Comment 12 V Stuart Foote 2019-04-03 02:21:55 UTC
*** Bug 124510 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 13 Thomas Lendo 2019-04-03 20:01:14 UTC
For better UX, I support the idea of separating the boundary appearance from non-printing characters option.

I like the mock-up of comment 5 but I doubt users will find this in the long list of appearance color options.
Comment 14 kitchm 2019-04-05 16:56:17 UTC
I totally support the separation of feature options.  Good usability design dictates such.  We have a problem when programmers do not include as many feature options as possible in the basic settings area.

Currently, the user must jump thru hoops to set things like the default documents font.  Things like this need to be in one place and one place only.

Two failures happened here; a feature was left out, and it was not included in the personalized settings area.

Adding menu toggles is a good idea, but making the personal choice of things like a margin line should be part of basic settings first.