Internally Edit > Changes is known as Track Changes and i think using 'Track Changes' or 'Change Tracking' might be a more suitable label for the item.
Cor & Sophie: Whats your opinion of this?
Hi Jay, Looking at this... The submenu also offers for example "Accept or reject", "Merge documents". Is it understood if we rename "Changes" to "Track Changes"? Need to chew on that ;)
Hi Cor, Well everything in the submenu is Track Change related except 'Merge Documents', which i was going to suggest be moved out of the submenu next to 'Compare Documents'.
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #3) > Well everything in the submenu is Track Change related except 'Merge > Documents', Merge document is related _too_ - see the Help (index "changes;comparing to original") Still, I need to chew longer ;) "Accept or Reject" is handling changes, not the same as tracking them.. Is there some compelling reason that you come to this idea?
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #4) > (In reply to Jay Philips from comment #3) > > > Well everything in the submenu is Track Change related except 'Merge > > Documents', > > Merge document is related _too_ - see the Help (index "changes;comparing to > original") Let me correct myself. 'Merge Documents' and 'Protect Records' (this needs to be renamed) are not related to 'Track Changes' but are related to 'Changes'. According to ( https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Merge_Document ), merge document "Imports changes made to copies of the same document into the original document." > Still, I need to chew longer ;) > "Accept or Reject" is handling changes, not the same as tracking them.. Well 'Next Change' and 'Previous Change' is also part of handling changes. > Is there some compelling reason that you come to this idea? With change related items having their own separate section in the edit menu, it is worth bringing the non-track change items out of the submenu and into the main menu. This would look something like this. - separator - Protect Document Track Changes > [...] Merge Document Compare Document - separator - Separate from this reason, other word processors use the word 'Track Changes' in their menus. MS Word 2003 and WPS Writer have it in the Tools menu, while iWork Pages has it in the Edit menu. So i think its a good idea to make it easier for migrating users to find this specific wording in our menus.
One of the main problems is that the submenu labels need to be changed to clarify what they mean. For example Edit > Changes > Show can either be changed into Edit > Track Changes > Show Change or Edit > Changes > Show Track Changes. Once i know the what will happen with this bug, i can cater the label changes going into the submenu and toolbar tooltips in bug 84406.
For me the expression "Track Changes" would be much better. A few days ago I had a friend working at my computer and she told me that she could not find the track changes function, because the term "Changes" is not intuitive. Regarding the "Merge Document" this could then maybe be ambiguous. But maybe you can find a solution for this like for instance Jay suggested with moving it out of the menu or something else?
Sorry, my bad. After searching "changes;comparing to original" in the index, one has also to click on the link "merging versions" below the help text.. Then you can read: " The only requirement is that the documents differ only and exclusively in the recorded changes - all other original text must be identical. " So related to Track Changes ;)
@ Jay, @Andy: OK, fair enough: good to use Track Change then.
Patch is in - https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/12098/
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=d61c55b4d11f4a4ffdf4fb75ba2e950de8ae2beb Now it’d be cool to have the help repository updated as well...
(In reply to Adolfo Jayme from comment #11) > Now it’d be cool to have the help repository updated as well... Yes, that came to my mind when on bike this morning... Maybe also changed menu paths ask for updating the Help?
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #10) > Patch is in - https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/12098/ - <value xml:lang="en-US">~Accept or Reject Changes...</value> + <value xml:lang="en-US">~List of Changes...</value> Why? The existing indicates the possible action...
Didnt quite get what you meant Cor.
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #14) > Didnt quite get what you meant Cor. I don't understand why that text is changed :)
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #15) > I don't understand why that text is changed :) Well it was changed so that both the menu and toolbar button tooltip would be easily understandable and that Writer and Calc would have the same label. @Adolfo: Changed strings were added to the wiki.
Hi jay, (In reply to Jay Philips from comment #16) > (In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #15) > Well it was changed so that both the menu and toolbar button tooltip would > be easily understandable and that Writer and Calc would have the same label. I don't get why the new text is easier to understand then the existing one. Also, as written before, the existing text indicates the possible action and thus provides more information to the user. So it would be good to change the tooltip, IMO :)
Hi Cor, (In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #17) > I don't get why the new text is easier to understand then the existing one. > Also, as written before, the existing text indicates the possible action and > thus provides more information to the user. Well firstly i wanted to unify both Writer and Calc, as writer had 'Accept or Reject' and Calc had 'Accept or Reject Changes'. I had suggested 'Changes List' and Adolfo suggested 'List of Changes'. > So it would be good to change the tooltip, IMO :) To my knowledge, there isnt an easy means of having separate names for the menu label and the toolbar button tooltips.
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #18) > Well firstly i wanted to unify both Writer and Calc, as writer had 'Accept > or Reject' and Calc had 'Accept or Reject Changes'. I had suggested 'Changes > List' and Adolfo suggested 'List of Changes'. Thanks for explaining how the idea came up. What about the argumentation I mention? Is it not possible to give all the same tip/text?
Yousuf Philips committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=6d5fc817b5e84cf0669725cf0ef3a94f93158f50 fdo#85046 - Calc name changes didnt show up with entries having ContextLabel It will be available in 4.4.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #19) > Thanks for explaining how the idea came up. What about the argumentation I > mention? > Is it not possible to give all the same tip/text? As i see it, the older text of 'Accept or Reject' doesnt emphasis that the dialog is focused on, presenting the full list of changes. I'm okay with whatever its called as long as its understandable in the menu and the toolbar.
The primary functionality of this dialog is indeed accepting or rejecting changes :-) Until recently, the toolbar for accepting/rejecting did not exist, and this was the only way; and I guess for many people still is. We should change the List of Changes... back to Accept or Reject Changes...; but the rest are nice improvements - thanks for that! :-) [Reopening to sort out the List of Changes... - let's talk about that in the hangout tomorrow.]
Issue was discussed in the meeting and we went with Sophie's suggestion of 'Manage Changes'. Patch submitted - https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/12271/
Yousuf Philips committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=a7c8da29f53eb5506fac56f7aab2dfa48d31c389 fdo#85046 change 'List of Changes' to 'Manage Changes' and fix accelerator key It will be available in 4.4.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Yousuf Philips committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=d82e55e4864258c1915dd486350a73727b8ac1f5 fdo#85046 removing extra merge document entry in the Tools menu It will be available in 4.4.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
(In reply to Commit Notification from comment #25) > Yousuf Philips committed a patch related to this issue. > It has been pushed to "master": Hi Jay, This patch does something with Calc?
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #26) > Hi Jay, > > This patch does something with Calc? Hi Cor, Yes there were two 'Merge Document' entries in Calc. One in the tools menu and the other in Edit menu, so i removed the one in tools.
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #27) > (In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #26) > > Hi Jay, > > > > This patch does something with Calc? > > Hi Cor, > > Yes there were two 'Merge Document' entries in Calc. One in the tools menu > and the other in Edit menu, so i removed the one in tools. Are you sure that the Merge document from Tools is the same as the Merge document that is in the Edit menu (and that has been removed sub menu (erroneously IMO, in any way in Writer is belongs in the sub menu!) See my comment #8 Ciao, Cor
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #28) > Are you sure that the Merge document from Tools is the same as the Merge > document that is in the Edit menu Ah yes, it is. > (and that has been removed sub menu > (erroneously IMO, in any way in Writer is belongs in the sub menu!) > See my comment #8 Did you check this? Ohh.. I see now that in Writer the Merge Document has been removed from the sub-menu. Can you pls revert that in Writer any way? And let's check if the same applies for Calc. Cheers
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #29) > > (and that has been removed sub menu > > (erroneously IMO, in any way in Writer is belongs in the sub menu!) > > See my comment #8 > > Did you check this? Yes i had checked it. > Ohh.. I see now that in Writer the Merge Document has been removed from the > sub-menu. Can you pls revert that in Writer any way? The point of pulling it out of the submenu was to bring more emphasis to it by having it as a main entry in the changes section (it was a main entry in the Tools menu), as well as to separate it from the regular track changes options.
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #30) > The point of pulling it out of the submenu was to bring more emphasis to it > by having it as a main entry in the changes section (it was a main entry in > the Tools menu), as well as to separate it from the regular track changes > options. Sorry but you're missing the point :) It is a regular "track changes" action.
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #31) > Sorry but you're missing the point :) > It is a regular "track changes" action. I do understand that it is a 'track change' action, but that doesnt mean that it needs to be under the submenu. I had discussed this at the design meeting and people were fine with the change. Maybe you can bring it up at next week's meeting if you still feel that it needs more discussing. :D
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #32) > (In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #31) > > Sorry but you're missing the point :) > > It is a regular "track changes" action. > > I do understand that it is a 'track change' action, but that doesnt mean You were not in your comment #31 .. > that it needs to be under the submenu. I had discussed this at the design > meeting and people were fine with the change. Maybe you can bring it up at > next week's meeting if you still feel that it needs more discussing. :D so I doubt if the people there had proper insight in the situation. So yes, I think this needs to be looked at again.
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #33) > (In reply to Jay Philips from comment #32) > > (In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #31) > > > Sorry but you're missing the point :) > > > It is a regular "track changes" action. > > > > I do understand that it is a 'track change' action, but that doesnt mean > > You were not in your comment #31 .. > > > that it needs to be under the submenu. I had discussed this at the design > > meeting and people were fine with the change. Maybe you can bring it up at > > next week's meeting if you still feel that it needs more discussing. :D > > so I doubt if the people there had proper insight in the situation. So yes, > I think this needs to be looked at again. This function is about to add all changes made by others in different documents to the original document. Note that if text out of registered changes is modified, the merge will fail, so I agree that it's completely related to changes tracking. However, the way it's presented now near Compare document, will make the user ask him the difference between Merge and Compare. So, I support the idea to remove it from the submenu, it makes the submenu clearer and emphasize the Merge function. If the Help reflect the new position, this change is good and will benefit users. Sophie
(In reply to sophie from comment #34) > This function is about to add all changes made by others in different > documents to the original document. Note that if text out of registered > changes is modified, the merge will fail, so I agree that it's completely > related to changes tracking. Indeed. > However, the way it's presented now near Compare document, will make the > user ask him the difference between Merge and Compare. Ah.. I always thought the UI was not meant to give puzzles to the user, but to give guidance. Merge and Compare both open the same window. But Merge will result in nothing happening, when used improperly, not in combination with tracked changes. Come one pls. This error was introduced due to insufficient understanding of the function on the first place. No problem, can happen, I make errors all day long :) But then come back on it (or whatever the proper English saying for that is...)
I'll file an official protest ;)
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #36) > I'll file an official protest ;) As you have already made the change in bug 86252. Lets just close it at that. :D
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #37) > As you have already made the change in bug 86252. Lets just close it at > that. :D Thanks Jay. In the end, code is the only way to officially protest, isn't it ;) I wouldn't have expected it to go that fast after submitting though ...
Just to clarify. (In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #33) > You were not in your comment #31 .. Comment 31 is yours. :D I had a different understanding in comment 5, but you clarified it in comment 8, but still felt that having it in the main menu would be good as it would make the changes section larger than just 2, it emphasizes the function more as it is listed in the main menu, and it looks good next to the similarly named 'Compare Document', which is related to track changes as it opens the 'Accept or Reject Changes' dialog. > so I doubt if the people there had proper insight in the situation. So yes, > I think this needs to be looked at again. Well kendy uses track changes and was one who preferred the old 'Accept or Reject' name change (comment 22), so i'm assuming he would have had some knowledge of Merge Documents. (In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #38) > Thanks Jay. In the end, code is the only way to officially protest, isn't it > ;) Well it wasnt something that i was going to fight tooth and nail about, so if your that adamant on it, i'm fine with it. ;)
Hi Jay, (In reply to Jay Philips from comment #39) > Just to clarify. Thanks, The discussion/info was not always that clear from my side too. > [...] > Well it wasnt something that i was going to fight tooth and nail about, so > if your that adamant on it, i'm fine with it. ;) Yes sometimes some inflexible sides of my character pop up ;) Hope we won't see them too much :)
(In reply to sophie from comment #34) > This function is about to add all changes made by others in different > documents to the original document. Note that if text out of registered > changes is modified, the merge will fail, so I agree that it's completely > related to changes tracking. Sorry i hadnt read your comment earlier, i must have mistakenly skipped over it with so many comments arriving in my inbox. :D > However, the way it's presented now near Compare document, will make the > user ask him the difference between Merge and Compare. So, I support the > idea to remove it from the submenu, it makes the submenu clearer and > emphasize the Merge function. If the Help reflect the new position, this > change is good and will benefit users. Sophie Yes it was my intent to make the submenu clearer by limiting it to things that were related to the adding and reviewing of track changes and it was strange seeing the 'Merge Document' at the bottom of the submenu in a section all by itself. I think maybe the item should be renamed to better emphasize what it really is, which is of merging track changes made on the same document by multiple people, so maybe 'Merge Other Changes...' might be a more suitable name.