Bug Hunting Session
Bug 85420 - Integrate online template website into Start Center
Summary: Integrate online template website into Start Center
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: LibreOffice (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
4.4.0.0.alpha0+ Master
Hardware: Other All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: needsDevEval, topicUI
Depends on:
Blocks: Start-Center Templates
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2014-10-24 20:46 UTC by Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired)
Modified: 2016-10-18 14:48 UTC (History)
5 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
wps writer's online template gallery (236.29 KB, image/png)
2014-10-24 20:46 UTC, Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired)
Details
Template manager dialog button to launch browser and get more templates (5.48 KB, image/png)
2014-10-24 22:08 UTC, V Stuart Foote
Details
possible concept in start center (98.78 KB, image/png)
2014-10-25 01:45 UTC, Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired)
Details
Alternative concept for templates (and extensions) (131.59 KB, image/png)
2014-12-03 19:13 UTC, Heiko Tietze
Details

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Description Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2014-10-24 20:46:32 UTC
Created attachment 108370 [details]
wps writer's online template gallery

I recently opened up WPS Writer and saw they provided an assortment of templates from their online template gallery and i thought that it would be great to have something similar to this in the start center being pulled from libreoffice's template website < http://templates.libreoffice.org/ >.
Comment 1 A (Andy) 2014-10-24 20:53:21 UTC
This looks very interesting.
Comment 2 V Stuart Foote 2014-10-24 22:08:20 UTC
Created attachment 108373 [details]
Template manager dialog button to launch browser and get more templates

@Jay, *,

We sort of do already. 

Start Center --> Templates --> Edit Templates which launches the Template Manager dialog. And on the Template Manager the "Get more templates for LibreOffice" button as highlighted in the clip.

Launches a web browser session and allows user to search select and download a template into their own cache of templates.

Rather than cluttering the Start Center -- I think having it delivered from a web browser interface is more efficient and cleaner.

Placement and labeling  on the Template Manager might be improved though to make it more obvious.

Stuart
Comment 3 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2014-10-25 01:45:06 UTC
Created attachment 108377 [details]
possible concept in start center

Hi Stuart,

Having a button in the templates dialog is not the same as being able to browse through the online templates with LibO.

What i was thinking is that we can add a 4th folder listed within the template start center and dialog called 'Online Templates' and once you click on it, it queries the template website for screenshots and make it easy to download and add selected templates to 'My Templates'.
Comment 4 Adolfo Jayme 2014-10-26 01:04:47 UTC
What Kingsoft/WPS does is essentially a duplication of any template website. I don’t see the point, given that we already have a link to that website in the Template Manager dialog. Any effort we (or a GSoC student) do, won’t *ever* reach an acceptable level of quality, and what will happen if the web side of it is unavailable, or changes protocols, or the user doesn’t have free Internet access? An unusable “feature” will be present, and very prominently.

We should instead work in making our Templates website actually usable, and de-uglify it. IMNSHO.
Comment 5 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2014-10-26 10:04:24 UTC
(In reply to Adolfo Jayme from comment #4)
> What Kingsoft/WPS does is essentially a duplication of any template website.

Yes they are integrating a template website into their application. This isnt any different from integrating firefox persona themes into LibreOffice ( https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.4#Firefox_Themes ) rather than having users go to the website.

> I don’t see the point, given that we already have a link to that website in
> the Template Manager dialog.

We have a link to the template website from the template manager, but nothing for the start center. So even if integrating the website into the start center isnt going to fly, we still need a button in the start center linking users to the template website.

> Any effort we (or a GSoC student) do, won’t
> *ever* reach an acceptable level of quality

I believe that it can reach an acceptable level of quality, similar to how the firefox themes has reached a good level of quality now.

> and what will happen if the web
> side of it is unavailable, or changes protocols, or the user doesn’t have
> free Internet access?

What happens when a user doesnt have internet and doesnt have local help installed but clicks on the help button in the toolbar? It links to the wiki help by opening it up in a browser. What happens when a user clicks Help > Check for Updates... and has no internet or the TDF website is down. It will show an error message.

Not having internet access or the website not being available isnt a reason to not implement this feature. Error checking can be included in the code to make sure to check if internet access is available as well as the template website is accessible before attempting to get the templates.

If the user doenst have free internet access, he wont likely click the 'online templates' button, and even if he does, their would be only a minimal amount of bandwidth being used to query the website and get the results (titles, descriptions, ratings, thumbnails). The query result could be encoded to save bandwidth as well.

> An unusable “feature” will be present, and very
> prominently.

Its only unusable when you dont have internet access and it being in the template manager isnt in my view a prominent place.

> We should instead work in making our Templates website actually usable, and
> de-uglify it. IMNSHO.

Yes i believe work should go into improving the template website to make it nicer, but having a nice template website that users are aware of doesnt help, so we should make sure users who go into the template manager in the start center or dialog see a prominent indication that there are online templates that they can access.
Comment 6 Adolfo Jayme 2014-10-26 14:52:37 UTC
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #5)
> > Any effort we (or a GSoC student) do, won’t
> > *ever* reach an acceptable level of quality
> 
> I believe that it can reach an acceptable level of quality, similar to how
> the firefox themes has reached a good level of quality now.

Sorry, but you’ve chosen the worst example. All those glitches and rendering bugs are glaring to me.

> > and what will happen if the web
> > side of it is unavailable, or changes protocols, or the user doesn’t have
> > free Internet access?
> 
> What happens when a user doesnt have internet and doesnt have local help
> installed but clicks on the help button in the toolbar? It links to the wiki
> help by opening it up in a browser.

That’s actually a bug. Don’t be fooled into following the fallacy of counter-questioning with false equivalence.

> Its only unusable when you dont have internet access and it being in the
> template manager isnt in my view a prominent place.

Weren’t you talking about the start center? In 4.4, what goes into the Template Manager is also visible in the Start Center, anyways. That *is* prominent, and even more if it doesn’t work.

> Yes i believe work should go into improving the template website to make it
> nicer, but having a nice template website that users are aware of doesnt
> help, so we should make sure users who go into the template manager in the
> start center or dialog see a prominent indication that there are online
> templates that they can access.

(Perhaps you meant to write “are not aware…” instead of “are aware…”?)

Where’s the proof that the Templates website is hidden away and nobody is aware of it? Statistics are needed before making such claims.

The OOo-inherited Start Center had a link to the Templates website. Now we have an even clearer “Templates” button, with big fonts and everything — it’s not like people won’t see it. That button leads to a window with an icon linking to the site. Not undiscoverable.

Well, even though I can’t help thinking this is unnecessary bells and whistles, I like the concept you show in attachment 108377 [details]. There’s no need for more.
Comment 7 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2014-10-26 16:49:41 UTC
(In reply to Adolfo Jayme from comment #6)
> (In reply to Jay Philips from comment #5)
> > > Any effort we (or a GSoC student) do, won’t
> > > *ever* reach an acceptable level of quality
> > 
> > I believe that it can reach an acceptable level of quality, similar to how
> > the firefox themes has reached a good level of quality now.
> 
> Sorry, but you’ve chosen the worst example. All those glitches and rendering
> bugs are glaring to me.

I gave it as an example, but mean that i'm saying its a perfect implementation. Ultimately, we'll agree to disagree on having them integrated.

> > > and what will happen if the web
> > > side of it is unavailable, or changes protocols, or the user doesn’t have
> > > free Internet access?
> > 
> > What happens when a user doesnt have internet and doesnt have local help
> > installed but clicks on the help button in the toolbar? It links to the wiki
> > help by opening it up in a browser.
> 
> That’s actually a bug. Don’t be fooled into following the fallacy of
> counter-questioning with false equivalence.

I dont think that is a bug, because libreoffice shouldnt have to check for an internet access before sending a user to a website, but if you think its a bug, please do file it. ;)

> > Its only unusable when you dont have internet access and it being in the
> > template manager isnt in my view a prominent place.
> 
> Weren’t you talking about the start center? In 4.4, what goes into the
> Template Manager is also visible in the Start Center, anyways. That *is*
> prominent, and even more if it doesn’t work.

I guess were are misunderstanding each other as i'm saying its not in a prominent place in libreoffice and you are saying its in a prominent place in the template manager.

> > Yes i believe work should go into improving the template website to make it
> > nicer, but having a nice template website that users are aware of doesnt
> > help, so we should make sure users who go into the template manager in the
> > start center or dialog see a prominent indication that there are online
> > templates that they can access.
> 
> (Perhaps you meant to write “are not aware…” instead of “are aware…”?)

You are correct. :D

> Where’s the proof that the Templates website is hidden away and nobody is
> aware of it? Statistics are needed before making such claims.

I am saying that in the start center of 4.4, when you click the templates button, the templates dialog doesnt appear, so there is no link to the templates website.

> The OOo-inherited Start Center had a link to the Templates website. Now we
> have an even clearer “Templates” button, with big fonts and everything —
> it’s not like people won’t see it. That button leads to a window with an
> icon linking to the site. Not undiscoverable.

As stated above, users of 4.4 arent being lead to the window, so there is no icon linking to the site.

> Well, even though I can’t help thinking this is unnecessary bells and
> whistles, I like the concept you show in attachment 108377 [details].
> There’s no need for more.

Yes when i created this screenshot, i thought that it would be used for both linking to the website or showing the online templates in the start center.
Comment 8 tommy27 2014-11-02 03:40:34 UTC
(In reply to A (Andy) from comment #1)
> This looks very interesting.

I agree. status NEW.
nice mockup here at attachment 108377 [details]
Comment 9 V Stuart Foote 2014-11-02 06:05:26 UTC
Frankly the existing template and extension hosting is horrible. As are most of the out of date template content posted as projects to the site. In its current state, I'm not convinced it makes any sense to invest more design or development effort for Start Center than the existing simple web link in the Template Manager dialog.

Admittedly, making it a core function of the Start Center would draw more attention to it. But the data infrastructure and design of the hosting would need to be improved before we could reliably parse it for viable content. 

I think before we get too wrapped up in this as an enhancement to Start Center implementation, there needs to be agreement on the direction and support of the role the project wants to fill in governance and hosting of templates. What exists is clearly inadequate in quality and quantity to make it a feature of the GUI.

-=ref=-
http://templates.libreoffice.org/template-center
Comment 10 Heiko Tietze 2014-12-03 19:13:48 UTC
Created attachment 110422 [details]
Alternative concept for templates (and extensions)

Just show the web site or rather the part with templates or extensions at the start center. Make extension and templates behave similar like Mozillas plugins and themes.
Comment 11 tommy27 2015-11-01 09:58:41 UTC
still a valid enhancement request.
not yet implemented in 5.0.x and 5.1.x
Comment 12 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2016-03-02 11:38:33 UTC
So this is available in the GSoC wiki page and i've just finished creating a mockup for how it could look.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MHN-PctRP2O9gQop74612xObBeuuww83BhPU8t7cdGs/edit?usp=sharing