Created attachment 116897 [details] screenshot help for "Copying Spreadsheet Areas to Text Documents" Finding for "Copy" in the local LO help we get the attached IT help. The same text is online at https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Copying_Spreadsheet_Areas_to_Text_Documents and https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Copying_Spreadsheet_Areas_to_Text_Documents/it At item 3-4 you should too inform about the alternative use of Copy-Paste commands. At item 6 we see: (EN) "... You edit the object in its own frame within the text document, but you see the icons and menu commands needed for spreadsheets." (IT) "... L'oggetto viene modificato all'interno del documento di testo, mentre con i fogli elettronici vengono visualizzati le icone e i comandi menu necessari ad effettuare le operazioni di modifica.". I cannot say if the EN version is well understandable, but the IT is not so. I think a better understandable translation may be: "L'oggetto può essere modificato nella sua finestra all'interno del documento di testo utilizzando anche le icone e i comandi tipici dei fogli elettronici presenti in alto nella 'barra della formula'." (EN translation: "You may edit the object in its own frame within the text document by using also the icons and commands needed for spreadsheets present in the top of the 'formula bar'." At item 7 (both EN and IT) we see help for opening the source document ("Choose Open to open the source document of the OLE object."). I think it is self-evident and unnecessary as the reference is to the usual method of opening a file. Do you agree?
PS: it would be appropriate to also add in "related topics" a reminder to the procedure to copy and link (copy-paste special). For the argument look at: http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/48734/inserire-e-collegare-aree-di-foglio-di-calcolo-in-un-doc/?answer=50706#post-id-50706 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91313 http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/48734/inserire-e-collegare-aree-di-foglio-di-calcolo-in-un-doc/?answer=50706#post-id-50706 http://ask.libreoffice.org/it/question/52211/writercalcexcel-inserire-e-collegare-aree-di-foglio-di-calcolo-in-un-documento/
CC'ing Gabriele to get native Italian feedback.
(In reply to gmarco from comment #0) > Created attachment 116897 [details] > screenshot help for "Copying Spreadsheet Areas to Text Documents" > > Finding for "Copy" in the local LO help we get the attached IT help. > The same text is online at > https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/ > Copying_Spreadsheet_Areas_to_Text_Documents > and > https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/ > Copying_Spreadsheet_Areas_to_Text_Documents/it > > At item 3-4 you should too inform about the alternative use of Copy-Paste > commands. > I do agree, even if there are many ways to do that (Insert Menu, for example, would be my favorite one) that deserve to be mentioned. And to be honest I would leave Drag & Drop (the only way shown at the moment) as the last one, since from my long experience in teaching, drag & drop is something not every (common) user is able to do, without doing a mess :) > At item 6 we see: > (EN) "... You edit the object in its own frame within the text document, but > you see the icons and menu commands needed for spreadsheets." > (IT) "... L'oggetto viene modificato all'interno del documento di testo, > mentre con i fogli elettronici vengono visualizzati le icone e i comandi > menu necessari ad effettuare le operazioni di modifica.". > > I cannot say if the EN version is well understandable, but the IT is not so. > I think a better understandable translation may be: > "L'oggetto può essere modificato nella sua finestra all'interno del > documento di testo utilizzando anche le icone e i comandi tipici dei fogli > elettronici presenti in alto nella 'barra della formula'." > (EN translation: "You may edit the object in its own frame within the text > document by using also the icons and commands needed for spreadsheets > present in the top of the 'formula bar'." > I find english wording good and understandable, while italian not that much, or better it is, but it's not the exact translation from my POV. Even gmarco's translation doesn't satisfy me that much. I would say: "Puoi modificare l'oggetto nel suo (specifico) riquadro all'interno della VideoScittura, ma vedrai apparire pulsanti e menu (tipici e) necessari ai Fogli di Calcolo." > At item 7 (both EN and IT) we see help for opening the source document > ("Choose Open to open the source document of the OLE object."). > I think it is self-evident and unnecessary as the reference is to the usual > method of opening a file. > Well, in this case I believe it is meant for the Open command in the contextual menu, (but I didn't try, I'm just trying to recall from memories) and not the one under File menu. So it is not that obvious to me to have such an option to open the original spreadsheet with just a click. > Do you agree? CC'ed Olivier Hallot as Documentation manager and Luca Daghino as Italian NLP Documentation leader.
LO 5.2.3.3 Nothing ghanged, why still UNCONFIRMED?
Let's go to NEW
Summary (01/12/2017): Re-testing in LO 5.2.3.3 and summarizing the issue, firstly I don't share the summary editing by adding "(IT help)": all that it is said is true both for IT and EN ... and, maybe, ...... Regarding "Copying Spreadsheet Areas to Text Documents" both in the local and online help nothing is said about linking as DDE objects, and nothing is said about the use of the method copy-paste special. I share the Gabriele Ponzo's opinion about drag&drop in comment#3: not every use it, without doing a mess and it has to know its use normal/+Ctrl/+Ctrl+Shift. At item 6 I don't like the "You edit the objects ... , but you see ...": why "but"? I'd write "as you'll see" or simply "seeing". Samething for IT "... mentre con i fogli elettronici vengono visualizzati ...": here too, why "mentre"? Same time you should explain the significant difference between inserting as OLE or DDE: with the first, data will remain incorporated as they are, with the latter they will be logically linked to the source document reflecting, if desired, all the changes occurred over time.
Is this still valid in https://help.libreoffice.org/7.2/en-US/text/shared/guide/dragdrop_table.html?&DbPAR=WRITER&System=UNIX Can we get a proposal for wording?
I do not think there are any changes compared to the text attached to the post dated 2016-06-28 and the instructions are by no means exhaustive: by dragging the area of the spreadsheet into the text document, the area in the spreadsheet is moved (not copied ) and then, closing with save the ods file, this gets saved without that area.
(In reply to gmarco from comment #8) > I do not think there are any changes compared to the text attached to the > post dated 2016-06-28 and the instructions are by no means exhaustive: by > dragging the area of the spreadsheet into the text document, the area in the > spreadsheet is moved (not copied ) and then, closing with save the ods file, > this gets saved without that area. Can you propose a wording, so Olivier can implement it?
I should test the function in detail and at the moment I don't have the time, I will try to do it asap. But, in the first place, as per instructions, it is NOT a "Copying ... but a Moving ...!
[Automated Action] NeedInfo-To-Unconfirmed
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #9) > Can you propose a wording, so Olivier can implement it? I spent some time testing and checking the current state of the possibilities (see the attached report). The operation can be performed in different ways and with different results. Therefore I find it perhaps useless to prepare precise instructions until it is defined what the developers of LO want to offer. However, a correct IT translation of the current EN instructions would look like this attached help (where modified parts are in italics).
Created attachment 172678 [details] report about
Created attachment 172679 [details] suggested IT help about
Do I understand correctly that there are some troubles with localization/translation, but not with the drag-and-drop function?
So, the issues can be distinguished as follows: 1) drag-and-drop: in the instructions (items 3-4) this appears as the only method to perform the copy (a "must") while it is not, there are other more "easy to use" modes as correctly supported by G.Ponzo in #3. 2) the whole topic is treated superficially, without deepening and explaining the different modalities and the different results that derive from it (see my previous attachment: not only OLE, also DDE).
Let's set to NEW as proposal attachment 172678 [details] was added in June.
Please look at the update document also referring to bug 91817 which appears solved, but ....
Created attachment 177240 [details] updated pdf document
Further last update. Please discard the attachment 177240 [details] and look at the new (after last test in L.O. vers.7.2.4.1). Anyway I believe that the document can be a useful compendium as a help for managing the links between ODS and ODT.
Created attachment 177255 [details] pdf document (last update) now in L.O. vers. 7.2.4.1
In summary, @gmarco wants a better explanation on OLE, DDE and other kind of links between documents. Fair. But the Writer Guide has a chapter for this purpose [1]. Does [1] explain correctly the issues raised here? [1]https://books.libreoffice.org/en/WG24/WG2419-SpreadsheetsChartsObjects.html
As you like ... but a lot of time has passed, the Guide has remained almost the same as in 1917 and the gaps reported then have remained. • The use of "dragging" is not addressed, but, beeing commonly used to copy selected data, requires a warning: dragging a selected area from the sheet in CALC to the document in WRITER the spreadsheet area is embedded into the text document with a moving (cut) and not a copying (copy). So, to avoid losing data, you should restore the area in the CALC spreadsheet before saving it. To avoid this you should do, as indicated in the Guide at Creating a DDE link in Writer: from the EDIT menu "Copy (Ctrl+C) a selected area from the sheet in CALC, then Paste Special (Ctrl+Shift+V) in WRITER and then selecting LibreOffice n.n - Spreadsheet". (see also *note*) • Good the documentation in "Inserting a file as an OLE object" selecting the "Link to file" option (see also *note), but, if you want to insert only an area of the file, you can only insert and link it as DDE, as previously said, but without synchronization). • The Writer Guide (EN only too) may be usefull but many people don't know it (it is not recalled in help menu (L.O.guide F1 or User guide). (*note*): In the Guide ("Introduction: OLE and DDE objects") is said: "The difference between a DDE object and a linked OLE object is that a linked OLE object can be edited from the document in which it is added as a link, but a DDE object cannot. For example, if a Calc spreadsheet is pasted into a Writer document as a DDE object, then the spreadsheet cannot be edited in the Writer document.". It seems to me that this is not exactly so: both objects can be edited in WRITE same way, but the difference is that changes made in WRITE to the object pasted as DDE are not reflected in the original CALC file and vice versa, i.e. both documents are not in sync with each other. Summing up and concluding: the problem of automatic and synchronized updating of a single area of a spreadsheet seems still unmanageable, while I believe that the most common use is the incorporation of an area (rather than an entire sheet) in a text document and that this object can be kept synchronized and updated respecting the changes made to the original source. I no longer have the possibility to verify how it is now managed in MS, but this is what I obtained in the past in Word-Excel.