Created attachment 116897 [details] screenshot help for "Copying Spreadsheet Areas to Text Documents" Finding for "Copy" in the local LO help we get the attached IT help. The same text is online at https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Copying_Spreadsheet_Areas_to_Text_Documents and https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Copying_Spreadsheet_Areas_to_Text_Documents/it At item 3-4 you should too inform about the alternative use of Copy-Paste commands. At item 6 we see: (EN) "... You edit the object in its own frame within the text document, but you see the icons and menu commands needed for spreadsheets." (IT) "... L'oggetto viene modificato all'interno del documento di testo, mentre con i fogli elettronici vengono visualizzati le icone e i comandi menu necessari ad effettuare le operazioni di modifica.". I cannot say if the EN version is well understandable, but the IT is not so. I think a better understandable translation may be: "L'oggetto può essere modificato nella sua finestra all'interno del documento di testo utilizzando anche le icone e i comandi tipici dei fogli elettronici presenti in alto nella 'barra della formula'." (EN translation: "You may edit the object in its own frame within the text document by using also the icons and commands needed for spreadsheets present in the top of the 'formula bar'." At item 7 (both EN and IT) we see help for opening the source document ("Choose Open to open the source document of the OLE object."). I think it is self-evident and unnecessary as the reference is to the usual method of opening a file. Do you agree?
PS: it would be appropriate to also add in "related topics" a reminder to the procedure to copy and link (copy-paste special). For the argument look at: http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/48734/inserire-e-collegare-aree-di-foglio-di-calcolo-in-un-doc/?answer=50706#post-id-50706 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91313 http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/48734/inserire-e-collegare-aree-di-foglio-di-calcolo-in-un-doc/?answer=50706#post-id-50706 http://ask.libreoffice.org/it/question/52211/writercalcexcel-inserire-e-collegare-aree-di-foglio-di-calcolo-in-un-documento/
CC'ing Gabriele to get native Italian feedback.
(In reply to gmarco from comment #0) > Created attachment 116897 [details] > screenshot help for "Copying Spreadsheet Areas to Text Documents" > > Finding for "Copy" in the local LO help we get the attached IT help. > The same text is online at > https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/ > Copying_Spreadsheet_Areas_to_Text_Documents > and > https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/ > Copying_Spreadsheet_Areas_to_Text_Documents/it > > At item 3-4 you should too inform about the alternative use of Copy-Paste > commands. > I do agree, even if there are many ways to do that (Insert Menu, for example, would be my favorite one) that deserve to be mentioned. And to be honest I would leave Drag & Drop (the only way shown at the moment) as the last one, since from my long experience in teaching, drag & drop is something not every (common) user is able to do, without doing a mess :) > At item 6 we see: > (EN) "... You edit the object in its own frame within the text document, but > you see the icons and menu commands needed for spreadsheets." > (IT) "... L'oggetto viene modificato all'interno del documento di testo, > mentre con i fogli elettronici vengono visualizzati le icone e i comandi > menu necessari ad effettuare le operazioni di modifica.". > > I cannot say if the EN version is well understandable, but the IT is not so. > I think a better understandable translation may be: > "L'oggetto può essere modificato nella sua finestra all'interno del > documento di testo utilizzando anche le icone e i comandi tipici dei fogli > elettronici presenti in alto nella 'barra della formula'." > (EN translation: "You may edit the object in its own frame within the text > document by using also the icons and commands needed for spreadsheets > present in the top of the 'formula bar'." > I find english wording good and understandable, while italian not that much, or better it is, but it's not the exact translation from my POV. Even gmarco's translation doesn't satisfy me that much. I would say: "Puoi modificare l'oggetto nel suo (specifico) riquadro all'interno della VideoScittura, ma vedrai apparire pulsanti e menu (tipici e) necessari ai Fogli di Calcolo." > At item 7 (both EN and IT) we see help for opening the source document > ("Choose Open to open the source document of the OLE object."). > I think it is self-evident and unnecessary as the reference is to the usual > method of opening a file. > Well, in this case I believe it is meant for the Open command in the contextual menu, (but I didn't try, I'm just trying to recall from memories) and not the one under File menu. So it is not that obvious to me to have such an option to open the original spreadsheet with just a click. > Do you agree? CC'ed Olivier Hallot as Documentation manager and Luca Daghino as Italian NLP Documentation leader.
LO 5.2.3.3 Nothing ghanged, why still UNCONFIRMED?
Let's go to NEW
Summary (01/12/2017): Re-testing in LO 5.2.3.3 and summarizing the issue, firstly I don't share the summary editing by adding "(IT help)": all that it is said is true both for IT and EN ... and, maybe, ...... Regarding "Copying Spreadsheet Areas to Text Documents" both in the local and online help nothing is said about linking as DDE objects, and nothing is said about the use of the method copy-paste special. I share the Gabriele Ponzo's opinion about drag&drop in comment#3: not every use it, without doing a mess and it has to know its use normal/+Ctrl/+Ctrl+Shift. At item 6 I don't like the "You edit the objects ... , but you see ...": why "but"? I'd write "as you'll see" or simply "seeing". Samething for IT "... mentre con i fogli elettronici vengono visualizzati ...": here too, why "mentre"? Same time you should explain the significant difference between inserting as OLE or DDE: with the first, data will remain incorporated as they are, with the latter they will be logically linked to the source document reflecting, if desired, all the changes occurred over time.
Is this still valid in https://help.libreoffice.org/7.2/en-US/text/shared/guide/dragdrop_table.html?&DbPAR=WRITER&System=UNIX Can we get a proposal for wording?
I do not think there are any changes compared to the text attached to the post dated 2016-06-28 and the instructions are by no means exhaustive: by dragging the area of the spreadsheet into the text document, the area in the spreadsheet is moved (not copied ) and then, closing with save the ods file, this gets saved without that area.
(In reply to gmarco from comment #8) > I do not think there are any changes compared to the text attached to the > post dated 2016-06-28 and the instructions are by no means exhaustive: by > dragging the area of the spreadsheet into the text document, the area in the > spreadsheet is moved (not copied ) and then, closing with save the ods file, > this gets saved without that area. Can you propose a wording, so Olivier can implement it?
I should test the function in detail and at the moment I don't have the time, I will try to do it asap. But, in the first place, as per instructions, it is NOT a "Copying ... but a Moving ...!
[Automated Action] NeedInfo-To-Unconfirmed
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #9) > Can you propose a wording, so Olivier can implement it? I spent some time testing and checking the current state of the possibilities (see the attached report). The operation can be performed in different ways and with different results. Therefore I find it perhaps useless to prepare precise instructions until it is defined what the developers of LO want to offer. However, a correct IT translation of the current EN instructions would look like this attached help (where modified parts are in italics).
Created attachment 172678 [details] report about
Created attachment 172679 [details] suggested IT help about
Do I understand correctly that there are some troubles with localization/translation, but not with the drag-and-drop function?
So, the issues can be distinguished as follows: 1) drag-and-drop: in the instructions (items 3-4) this appears as the only method to perform the copy (a "must") while it is not, there are other more "easy to use" modes as correctly supported by G.Ponzo in #3. 2) the whole topic is treated superficially, without deepening and explaining the different modalities and the different results that derive from it (see my previous attachment: not only OLE, also DDE).
Let's set to NEW as proposal attachment 172678 [details] was added in June.
Please look at the update document also referring to bug 91817 which appears solved, but ....
Created attachment 177240 [details] updated pdf document
Further last update. Please discard the attachment 177240 [details] and look at the new (after last test in L.O. vers.7.2.4.1). Anyway I believe that the document can be a useful compendium as a help for managing the links between ODS and ODT.
Created attachment 177255 [details] pdf document (last update) now in L.O. vers. 7.2.4.1