Bug 96140 - TIMEVALUE Calc function described incorrectly in the Italian documentation
Summary: TIMEVALUE Calc function described incorrectly in the Italian documentation
Status: RESOLVED MOVED
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Documentation (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
3.5.0 release
Hardware: Other Windows (All)
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2015-11-29 18:28 UTC by gmarco
Modified: 2017-01-09 21:37 UTC (History)
5 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
sample demo sheet (14.38 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.spreadsheet)
2015-11-29 18:28 UTC, gmarco
Details
newtest screenshot (75.87 KB, image/jpeg)
2015-11-30 21:29 UTC, gmarco
Details
ods sample (20.36 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.spreadsheet)
2017-01-04 21:06 UTC, gmarco
Details

Note You need to log in before you can comment on or make changes to this bug.
Description gmarco 2015-11-29 18:28:20 UTC
Created attachment 120880 [details]
sample demo sheet

Testing the function ORARIO.VALORE (TIMEVALUE in EN) I have found that any combination of topics gives as result Err:502.
See a demo in the attached sheet "orario funct.ods" (the same two examples into the help).
Comment 1 m_a_riosv 2015-11-29 23:50:06 UTC
Hi @gmarco, thanks for reporting.

Sorry but for me cells from B11 to F12 shows properly the values, no Err:502 (Invalid argument) results for me.
Comment 2 Buovjaga 2015-11-30 11:57:06 UTC
I get Err:502 for B11, D11 and F11.

Win 7 Pro 64-bit, Version: 5.0.3.2 (x64)
Build ID: e5f16313668ac592c1bfb310f4390624e3dbfb75
Locale: fi-FI (fi_FI)

Version: 5.2.0.0.alpha0+
Build ID: a7c3a2a9be83686657c06f37d521f9f6d2004ddd
Threads 4; Ver: Windows 6.1; Render: default; 
TinderBox: Win-x86@39, Branch:master, Time: 2015-11-28_04:39:18
Locale: fi-FI (fi_FI)

LibreOffice 3.5.0rc3 
Build ID: 7e68ba2-a744ebf-1f241b7-c506db1-7d53735
Comment 3 Buovjaga 2015-11-30 12:07:48 UTC
Note: I could make it work in a new document, if I used the style of my own locale: "4ip." instead of "4PM".
Yet, the Italian help speaks of "4PM", so it should work: https://help.libreoffice.org/Calc/TIMEVALUE/it

gmarco: please try to find out, if Italian help is correct..
Comment 4 GerardF 2015-11-30 13:16:26 UTC
OK with French locale.

Err 502 with Italian one.
But when I check time format for Italian locale, I see 4p. or 4s. instead of 4PM and 4AM.
Formula =ORARIO.VALORE("4P.") returns correct value.

I don't know if the error is in the settings or in the help (I don't know Italian use for times format)
Comment 5 gmarco 2015-11-30 21:29:19 UTC
Created attachment 120903 [details]
newtest screenshot

Thanks to everyone, primarily to Beluga.
In the attachment you can see my test: "PM" has to be "P." or "M.", the letter can be upper or lower case, a space is also ok between the hour number and the letter.
So the italian help seems wrong, but I don't know which is the official and right italian time format, I am used to see on the digital clocks the symbols am and pm (lower or upper case), never I have seen m. or p.
Comment 6 Buovjaga 2015-12-01 06:36:36 UTC
(In reply to gmarco from comment #5)
> Created attachment 120903 [details]
> newtest screenshot
> 
> Thanks to everyone, primarily to Beluga.
> In the attachment you can see my test: "PM" has to be "P." or "M.", the
> letter can be upper or lower case, a space is also ok between the hour
> number and the letter.
> So the italian help seems wrong, but I don't know which is the official and
> right italian time format, I am used to see on the digital clocks the
> symbols am and pm (lower or upper case), never I have seen m. or p.

I guess you should discuss in one of the Italian mailing lists.

I'll change component to documentation and adjust summary.
Comment 7 gmarco 2015-12-01 10:48:29 UTC
(In reply to Beluga from comment #6)
>
> I'll change component to documentation and adjust summary.

OK, thanks
 
> I guess you should discuss in one of the Italian mailing lists.

If you consider that the Italian forum (ask.libreoffice.org/it/questions/) has a total of 68 questions only, you can realize what result could have a similar survey.
Comment 8 Buovjaga 2015-12-01 10:52:59 UTC
(In reply to gmarco from comment #7)
> (In reply to Beluga from comment #6)
> >
> > I'll change component to documentation and adjust summary.
> 
> OK, thanks
>  
> > I guess you should discuss in one of the Italian mailing lists.
> 
> If you consider that the Italian forum (ask.libreoffice.org/it/questions/)
> has a total of 68 questions only, you can realize what result could have a
> similar survey.

I meant the mailing lists: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Italian-f1816772.html
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists#Italian

The Italian community is huge..
Comment 9 gmarco 2015-12-01 15:13:19 UTC
(In reply to Beluga from comment #8)
> I meant the mailing lists:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Italian-f1816772.html
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists#Italian
> 
> The Italian community is huge..

Thanks, you are right, unfortunately I am quite busy on other fronts, asap I'll try to get into those forums.
Comment 10 QA Administrators 2017-01-03 19:42:43 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 11 gmarco 2017-01-04 21:04:33 UTC
(In reply to QA Administrators from comment #10)

Running LO 5.2.3.3  Win10  nothing changed.
Look at the new attachment for some examples and notes.
Further I note that anti and post meridian espress in Calc with the letters "m" and "p" are unusual in IT:
I translate what you can read about at the link http://tp.linux.it/data_ora_valuta.html
TIMEVALUE.
The conventional notation to indicate a time in Italian language is "o:mm:ss"
with the hour expressed in 24-hour format without leading zero.
Expressed in the syntax of the GNU program date(1) becomes: %k:%M:%S
Examples:
13:00:56
4:12
The presence of leading zeros (obtained with dates(1) by replacing the %k with %H) is allowed in case you have the need for alignment issues or ordering.
It should be noted, that only for the alignment motivation, the agreement for date(1) provides for the possibility to use the "_" and "-" modifiers to hide some digit.
Consult the man page for more information.
In case you must use the 12-hour format, morning and afternoon should be rendered as "a.m." and "p.m.". Any other expression (AM/PM or A.M./P.M and so on) is to be avoided.
Also in case you must use the 12-hour format, the issue date(1) to use for the hour is %-I
Comment 12 gmarco 2017-01-04 21:06:03 UTC
Created attachment 130160 [details]
ods sample
Comment 13 gmarco 2017-01-07 22:21:32 UTC
I notice that the summary title has been changed, but do not agree with the new text ("TIMEVALUE Calc function described incorrectly in the Italian documentation"): the description is not incorrect and it is not so only in the Italian Doc, the substance is a very poor documentation about the offered examples and the only two present get "Err: 502". As I show in the sample ods already attached, the right format for the arguments are not exemplified [es. = TIMEVALUE ("4P.") O = TIMEVALUE ("16:00")].
Also for the example in the help function "=ORARIO" (in IT) is wrong: it says "= ORARIO (4;20;4) restituisce 04:20:04" ("restituisce" = displays) but it is not so, it displays "4.20.04"(. instead of :).

Also there are problems with the documentation but also problems regarding the results:
- the m. and p. suffixes are unusual in IT (we usually use a.m. and p.m. or simply am and pm)
- results as "=ORARIO(0;0;0) = 12.00.00m." or "=ORARIO(24;35;15) = 12.35.15m." are unacceptable.
Therefore, if you prefer, I can split the question in two separate bugs, let me know.
Comment 14 tommy27 2017-01-08 08:55:23 UTC
if there are 2 separate issues is always better to spit the report into 2 different ones.

once you have done it, set the current status here to RESOLVED MOVED and put links to the new bug reports under the "See Also" field (top right of the page.
Comment 15 gmarco 2017-01-09 21:36:52 UTC
As required, being the question a mixture of incorrect documentation and probable bugs affecting two different functions in Calc, I divided this one in 4 distinct bugs: 105221, 105222, 105224, 105226