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Bug 99595 - Improve a couple of keyboard shortcuts.
Summary: Improve a couple of keyboard shortcuts.
Status: RESOLVED WORKSFORME
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: LibreOffice (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
5.2.0.0.alpha0+
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: Shortcuts-Accelerators
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Reported: 2016-04-30 19:45 UTC by Hillie
Modified: 2016-10-05 05:48 UTC (History)
2 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


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Description Hillie 2016-04-30 19:45:23 UTC
Change "Repeat" shortcut to F4 from ctrl+shift+Y.  Change print preview to F3 from ctrl+shift+O.

The purpose of repeat is so that you can quickly repeat last command multiple times.  By making it one key, it makes it much more usable.  It was also one of the things that was immediatly a small annoyance when switching from Excel/Word.  I customize my menu to do this but I think it would make people quicker to adapt to Libreoffice if you made this change.

I would also suggest print preview be changed to F3 (or some other super easy keystroke) compared to ctrl+shift+O.  I think users often want to quickly jump in and out of print preview and having it simply F3 makes it much easier.  I also made this customization and once you try it, you will find it a real time saver.

I love Libreoffice and I think thses changes to the defaults might be easy and that they might really improve the odds of people switch from over from Excel/Word.  A repeat command via F4 in Draw would also be awesome.

Seems like a few people have expressed interest in this:  http://en.libreofficeforum.org/node/753, https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6258, http://deblogian.blogspot.ca/2011/12/repeat-last-action-in-libreoffice.html, https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/2011-August/000076.html, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2242564, http://goinggreek.info/linux-19.html

Not a big deal.  Thank you for considering this request.
Comment 1 V Stuart Foote 2016-05-01 02:31:25 UTC
F3 and F4 both have assigned uses already, in general we gain little by simply shuffling short-cuts.

Repeat and Print-preview are possibly useful keys to reassign a single key shortcut, but there are others with equal merit.

But, chasing conformity with UIs of Microsoft applications is not a very rational approach to managing LibreOffice's accelerators/short-cuts.

Design & UX is already looking at facets of this as bug 98255 for Calc to be able to establish shortcut compatibility mappings for different spreadsheet program.

=-ref-=
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AmDXLkQiFK5OcOrtuGn7iAcqp2Yhc_eNNnlADk-ji-U/edit#gid=0
Comment 2 Hillie 2016-05-02 00:21:22 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #1)
> F3 and F4 both have assigned uses already, in general we gain little by
> simply shuffling short-cuts.
> 
> Repeat and Print-preview are possibly useful keys to reassign a single key
> shortcut, but there are others with equal merit.
> 
> But, chasing conformity with UIs of Microsoft applications is not a very
> rational approach to managing LibreOffice's accelerators/short-cuts.
> 
> Design & UX is already looking at facets of this as bug 98255 for Calc to be
> able to establish shortcut compatibility mappings for different spreadsheet
> program.
> 
> =-ref-=
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/
> 1AmDXLkQiFK5OcOrtuGn7iAcqp2Yhc_eNNnlADk-ji-U/edit#gid=0

V Stuart Foote,

Thanks for the information.  There may well be keys of equal merit, but having used spreadsheets for many years and Libreoffice for a nice while now, those are the only two that I personally noticed as an issue in Libreoffice and repeat is really the main one from my perspective.  Personally I like to be able to move around Calc with the mouse or arrow keys while hitting the repeat key with the other hand.  With the type of work I do, I never miss the original commands assigned to F3 and F4.  To me the main thing is that it is not a three key combination for repeat.

This is not an issue for myself as I just customize but I thought it might be a small help with adoption of other users and improve the ease of use without too much work.

Shortcut compatibility mappings for different spreadsheet programs seems like a great way to deal with these type of issues.  Thanks again for the info.

Much appreciated,

Hillie
Comment 3 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2016-09-17 22:55:49 UTC
Hi Hillie,

From the available stats that we have, repeat isnt a highly used feature in writer, though 68% of users use the keyboard shortcut and 32% use the menu item. But in calc, it is a highly used feature with 75% of users using the keyboard and 25% using the menu. The other issue is that excel[1] uses f4 for both repeat and also to cycle cell references, which i'm not sure is something we can do.

[1] https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Excel-keyboard-shortcuts-and-function-keys-1798d9d5-842a-42b8-9c99-9b7213f0040f
Comment 4 Hillie 2016-09-18 02:32:52 UTC
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #3)
> Hi Hillie,
> 
> From the available stats that we have, repeat isnt a highly used feature in
> writer, though 68% of users use the keyboard shortcut and 32% use the menu
> item. But in calc, it is a highly used feature with 75% of users using the
> keyboard and 25% using the menu. The other issue is that excel[1] uses f4
> for both repeat and also to cycle cell references, which i'm not sure is
> something we can do.


Hi Yousuf,

I would agree that it is probably a more highly used feature in calc.  Personally I never use f4 to cycle cell references but that is just me.

Thanks,

Hillie
Comment 5 Heiko Tietze 2016-09-18 09:53:42 UTC
Shortcuts use ctrl for large-scale effects, and in combination with shift to extend or complement the command. The shortcut ctrl+Y/shift+ctrl+Y is well known (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control-Y), rather than F4.

The same argument is valid for print preview and F3. If we change things here, and we shouldn't do this without a good reason, the better shortcut is shift+ctrl+P as modifier to ctrl+P.

The good news is that you can customize the shortcuts as you like. So I close this ticket as WFM.
Comment 6 V Stuart Foote 2016-09-18 12:14:47 UTC
+1 on closing WFM. 

Between per user customization and eventual work on bug 98255, user preferences are well addressed with no real advantage to these piecemeal changes to our legacy shortcut assignments.
Comment 7 Hillie 2016-09-19 12:10:28 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #6)
> +1 on closing WFM. 
> 
> Between per user customization and eventual work on bug 98255, user
> preferences are well addressed with no real advantage to these piecemeal
> changes to our legacy shortcut assignments.

WFM

One last comment (at the risk of beating a dead horse):  I mostly agree with these points above.  I still maintain though, to me (and I may be alone :-) ) it would be optimal if the default repeat last command was easy to type because I think users often go to it multiple times when the original command was hard to type and required two hands (to me that is the purpose).  Ctrl+Y is better than ctrl+shift+Y but due to the location of Y on the keyboard, it seems hard to type ctrl+y with one hand.  To me you want to be able to move around with one hand, making different selections while hitting repeat with the other.

Thanks to all for the comments & time!  I just customize myself so not an issue for me and bug 98255 does look good.
Comment 8 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2016-10-05 05:48:31 UTC
(In reply to Hillie from comment #7)
> One last comment (at the risk of beating a dead horse):  I mostly agree with
> these points above.  I still maintain though, to me (and I may be alone :-)
> ) it would be optimal if the default repeat last command was easy to type
> because I think users often go to it multiple times when the original
> command was hard to type and required two hands (to me that is the purpose).
> Ctrl+Y is better than ctrl+shift+Y but due to the location of Y on the
> keyboard, it seems hard to type ctrl+y with one hand.  To me you want to be
> able to move around with one hand, making different selections while hitting
> repeat with the other.

Yes we would ideally want to have commonly used functions to be accessible with shortcuts that use 1 or 2 keys, though this isnt always possible with the many already assigned shortcuts, unifying shortcuts across modules/apps, and also unifying the shortcuts across operating systems.