Created attachment 147327 [details]
Citation styles available in Word.
Currently, the bibliography management tools in Writer are a complete disgrace.
It would be useful to define what to do with this since there are many bibliography management tools that do a great job of doing it, and some integrate quite well with Write (ex. Zotero).
However, since this is currently a part of Writer I will open a few bugs to request improvements to this Writer feature.
Word allows an user to pick among several citation styles as shown in the first attachment. However, Writer has no predefined Styles to how a bibliography should be introduced in a document that incudes citations.
There are several different citation styles available used by legal documents, scientific journals, etc.
Therefore, I would like to propose that a wide array of bibliographical styles are created and included by default with Writer ASAP if this is a feature that is supposed to be used.
Word doesn't have the most useful citation styles available. But it has some, and Zotero has a list of 17 citation/bibliography styles that could be used by Writer.
Created attachment 147328 [details]
Zotero citation styles
Citation styles available in Zotero.
Created attachment 147329 [details]
Zotero additional styles
Zotero also allows to install over 8100 additional styles (a feature lacking in Word) for citations and bibliographies present in their own repository.
All these styles are written in the Citation Style Language (CSL), a format also supported by Mendeley, Papers, and many other programs.
This Citation Style Language (CSL) project is open source and their goal is to facilitate scholarly publishing by automating the formatting of citations and bibliographies. They develop the Citation Style Language and maintain a crowdsourced repository with over 8000 free CSL citation styles.
The website for this project is the following:
They have a link for developers to learn how to create or edit CSL styles, how to integrate CSL into your own software, and how to contribute to CSL’s development.
IMO, this is something that could be integrated into Writer if we have the purpose of offering a decent reference management system within it.
Created attachment 147330 [details]
Proposal - introduce a drop-down menu that allows a user to select citation/bibliography Styles
Proposal - introduce a drop-down menu that allows a user to select citation/bibliography Styles. This system should be connected to the Citation Style Language repositories for users to install their preferred Styles.
*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 94418 ***
I would prefer to leave this re-opened since it is more specific in scope and more detailed than the referred bug 94418.
And I still open a few other bugs with more detailed information than that bug 94418 pertaining to other components of the reference system.
I agree, that this bug is related to bug 94418, but I agree to Pedro, that it has a different focus and gives a more precise proposal (I support this idea, but I can't say if this is feasible). So I would prefer to leave it open.
=> change it back to UNCONFIRMED
I think there should be a meta bug, to collect bugs with the topic "citation", but I don't know what is the adequate nema for that meta bug.
(In reply to Dieter Praas from comment #6)
> I think there should be a meta bug, to collect bugs with the topic
> "citation", but I don't know what is the adequate nema for that meta bug.
I found too few bugs to have an own meta for that.
We definitely should include the most relevant and make it easy to edit/export/import other styles, ideally as an extension.
Well, by linking Writer to the CSL citation database we could even ship it by default instead of an extension! :D
A bit like linking to the Firefox Personas database for theming.
*** Bug 68124 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
so for options to work on... we have:
(In reply to Pedro from comment #0)
> Created attachment 147327 [details]
> Citation styles available in Word.
(In reply to Pedro from comment #1)
> Created attachment 147328 [details]
> Citation styles available in Zotero.
(In reply to Pedro from comment #2)
> Created attachment 147329 [details]
> Zotero additional styles
> Zotero also allows to install over 8100 additional styles (a feature lacking
> in Word) for citations and bibliographies present in their own repository.
> This Citation Style Language (CSL) project is open source and their goal is
> The website for this project is the following:
and let me add https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citation
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #12)
> so for options to work on... we have:
The OpenOffice era project OOoBib  morphed into CSL, but beyond some initial metadata support in ODF that has not crossed back over to ODF. Meanwhile CSL continues to mature and is deeply supported by Zotero & Mendeley.
Would think that rather than reinventing the wheel (editors, schema in our internal Bibliography DB)--we should concentrate on providing the missing support for external citation & reference.
Two tracts to handling--1) a solid framework for 'external' extensions (like Zotero, Mendeley, even EndNotes) to hang off.
Or, 2) we implement our own native ability to parse CSL and render citation "objects" (metadata & styling) accordingly.
In either case refactoring the minimal support in of ODF for metadata --(ODF 1.2, 19.757 & 19.758 )
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #13)
> The OpenOffice era project OOoBib  morphed into CSL, but beyond some
Thanks for the info here Stuart!
*** Bug 131436 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Using the right citation style is crucial for scientific work. Some journals use in-text references with brackets and numbers like "" while other require more information, like "(Doe, 1901)". The index also varies to large a large extend.
Never heard about mixing two styles in one document, so we may allow to define a style per document and have inserted references and the actual bibliography formatted in this way.
Ultimately this is a huge effort and LibreOffice only has rudimentary support implemented yet. The idea to drop the bibliography completely in favor of 3rd party extensions was rejected (would still be my preference though).
I could imagine a macro solution.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #16)
> Ultimately this is a huge effort and LibreOffice only has rudimentary
> support implemented yet. The idea to drop the bibliography completely in
> favor of 3rd party extensions was rejected (would still be my preference
Totally agree. I remember the question, but I can't rmember a broader discussion about it.
(In reply to Dieter from comment #17)
> I can't rmember a broader discussion about it.
Comments at https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2018/12/19/save-the-bibliography/ (and IIRC some on social media).
I read all comments, but the only person, who was strictly agains an Zotero integration was Mike Kagansi, because he couldn’t manage to setup Zotero at that moment of his University diploma. So he can't compare internal bibliography with Zotero.
I don't think, that this comments are a reason for giving up the ida of integrating Zotero (or another tool).
(In reply to Dieter from comment #19)
Wait a second, who asked for integration of the Zotero extension by default? Besides the license question it would be offensive to other tools like Mendeley, which also do a great job.
Mendeley is proprietary and Zotero is not, though.
I really couldn't care about hurting the feelings of Mendeley. If we go with an external tool, we should go with an open source one. And that's Zotero.
Zotero is directly integrated into Softmaker Office as their reference manager.
At this moment, the functionality of Zotero in LibreOffice Writer is much worse than MS Word due to limitations in LO Writer.
Even though LibreOffice Writer has the option to apply field shadings, it does not do the same for bookmarks, so it is difficult to distinguish citations in text. This is because there's no shading for Bookmarks in LibreOffice, which also, unfortunately, makes it much easier to accidentally corrupt/edit citations in-text.
Moreover, I used to be able to simply copy and paste Zotero citations in MS Word to other parts of the text. However, I noticed that in Linux with LO Writer saving in docx and storing references either as bookmarks or ReferenceMarks I cant. This is due to another limitation in LO Writer being able to cut and paste citations, but not make duplicates (copy-paste).
Zotero is the leading reference management software and it's really disappointing that due to LO Writer limitations many people heavily using reference manager software (e.g. academics) are forced to stick to MS Word just for that when LO Writer is such a rich and mature software on par or many times better than MS Word.
Please consider improving support for Zotero.
(In reply to Georgios from comment #23)
> Even though LibreOffice Writer has the option to apply field shadings, it
> does not do the same for bookmarks...
Version 7.4 brings field shading for bookmarks (see bug 144677). Until then it was non-printing characters, activated via tools > options > writer > formatting aids.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #25)
> (In reply to Georgios from comment #23)
> > Even though LibreOffice Writer has the option to apply field shadings, it
> > does not do the same for bookmarks...
> Version 7.4 brings field shading for bookmarks (see bug 144677). Until then
> it was non-printing characters, activated via tools > options > writer >
> formatting aids.
Actually it has been done for 7.3.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #20)
> (In reply to Dieter from comment #19)
> Wait a second, who asked for integration of the Zotero extension by default?
> Besides the license question it would be offensive to other tools like
> Mendeley, which also do a great job.
Heiko you've written in your post https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2018/12/19/save-the-bibliography/ that this post is a first step in discussion, if LO should give up its own bibliography feature and should recommend external solutions. So what is the second step 3,5 years later?
Users want the in-built bibliography even when inferior to the market leaders. We should improve the UI and allow to switch from one citation mode to another. Style is misleading here as APA5 vs IEEE, for example, means to have the character style italic/underline/bold and the sequence of fields author, journal, year etc. inserted respectively.
The enhancement ticket is still relevant.