Bug 149316 - Clarify what a master slide is a master _for_
Summary: Clarify what a master slide is a master _for_
Status: UNCONFIRMED
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Impress (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
7.4.0.0 alpha0+
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: ImpressDraw-Enhancements
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Reported: 2022-05-26 10:35 UTC by Eyal Rozenberg
Modified: 2022-08-12 14:40 UTC (History)
4 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:
Regression By:


Attachments
Mockup of master slide sidebar view (in properties deck) (18.96 KB, image/png)
2022-08-11 09:07 UTC, Buovjaga
Details
WPS Office use case (216.89 KB, image/png)
2022-08-12 08:00 UTC, Pedro
Details
Impress Master view results. (998.27 KB, image/png)
2022-08-12 12:43 UTC, Pedro
Details

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Description Eyal Rozenberg 2022-05-26 10:35:54 UTC
IN Impress, we can switch to "Master Slide" view. And it seems that the master we'll be placed at is the master for the current slide. But - what about the other masters? It is not obvious, and sometimes quite difficult, to tell what each master slide is associated with. It looks like all we get are the slide numbers, which are not enough.

Related to Bug 78158. I _think_ this is not a dupe but I'm not quite sure how things concluded on that one exactly.
Comment 1 Regina Henschel 2022-05-27 20:18:55 UTC
I agree, it would be nice to have a list "This master slide is used for ...", if you are in master view. The properties pane of the side bar has lot of place for such a list if nothing is selected on the master slide.
Comment 2 Heiko Tietze 2022-05-30 11:45:07 UTC
I don't see the problem. Take the shipped template Candy: it has a bunch of master slides to cover all situations - delete the actual slides, which are just a showcase, and it still has the options. It's very uncommon to have one master per slide, typically one title and one content master.

And given we list the relation within the current presentation: what should it mean for templates? The linkage would be IMO misleading.
Comment 3 Eyal Rozenberg 2022-05-30 12:44:52 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #2)
> it has a bunch of master slides to cover all situations

Candy is a odd template, in that it's a jumble of different slide styles which don't seem to correspond to anything. It would be difficult to use.

> It's very uncommon to have one master per slide

Exactly...

> typically one title and one content master.

If it were always just that, then you could claim "the user can tell that the first master is for title slides and the second is for content slides". But things get more complicated when you have _two_ different masters which seem like content masters (like in Vivid); what is the template designer intend we do with them? Similarly when you have multiple title masters: You may have one for section heading slides, one for the absolute first slide, and one for the last slide; or for a section summary; etc.

> And given we list the relation within the current presentation

Not sure what you mean.
Comment 4 Heiko Tietze 2022-06-02 13:34:54 UTC
I don't think we should link a master slide somehow with the presentation. It's up to the designer whether a slide is called yellow, subtitle, 42 and to the user where exactly this is inserted. So my take is WF (but I'll keep the ticket open as Regina agreed with the idea).
Comment 5 Eyal Rozenberg 2022-06-15 21:55:43 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #4)
> I don't think we should link a master slide somehow with the presentation.

That's not what I mean, exactly. The master slide, in the template, should obviously not be linked to the specific presentation.

But it should be made clear what _kind_ of slides a master is intended for.

Also, a slide always has a master slide as which it began. It is useful to be able to browse that mapping, rather than going slide by slide through the link to this-slide's-master.

> It's up to the designer whether a slide is called yellow, subtitle, 42 and
> to the user where exactly this is inserted.

Not quite sure how this contradicts what I said...
Comment 6 Heiko Tietze 2022-08-10 07:26:19 UTC
Coming back to this topic. To my understanding the workflow is to load Candy, for example, delete all sample slides expect the title (in this case), add a new slide, and pick the wanted master from the sidebar (Properties > Slide > Master Slide). The name of the master slides can be chosen freely when designing the template and we could discuss what has been done by the designers but the workflow is essentially straight-forward. I might be wrong and this topic could be good for a usability test.
Comment 7 Heiko Tietze 2022-08-10 07:29:50 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #6)
> ...delete all sample slides expect the title...

Most users probably just copy the sample slides.
Comment 8 Heiko Tietze 2022-08-10 07:41:18 UTC
Sorry for the noise, found another point for consideration. In bug 62332 it's requested to bind the layout to the master. The template should at least consider the different layouts like done at "Vintage" where "Standard 3" suits well the "Title and 2 Content" layout. The idea of bug 62332 is to automatically pick the layout that a master is designed for.
Comment 9 Eyal Rozenberg 2022-08-10 18:07:26 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #6)
> Coming back to this topic. To my understanding the workflow is

To each his/her own workflow...

>, for example, delete all sample slides expect the title (in this
> case), add a new slide, and pick the wanted master from the sidebar
> (Properties > Slide > Master Slide). 

1. Candy is an outlier.
2. Not true for vivid, for example.
3. That's not what I would do with Candy. I would not delete anything until I was done working on the presentation.

> but the workflow is essentially straight-forward.

There's nothing even encouraging the user to delete all of the master except just one.

> I might be wrong and this topic could be good for a usability test.

You are "outnumbered" 2 to 1 among commenters on this bug, and you've not made a convincing argument for why people are deleting the masters...
Comment 10 Buovjaga 2022-08-11 09:07:50 UTC
Created attachment 181721 [details]
Mockup of master slide sidebar view (in properties deck)

I tried to understand what concrete feature would answer to the need described in this report. This mockup is something that came to my mind.

When changing to View - Master slide, you would see in the sidebar properties deck a list of thumbnails "Used for these slides". Hovering over a thumbnail would show the slide name in a tooltip.

Eyal: what do you think?
Comment 11 Pedro 2022-08-12 08:00:45 UTC
Created attachment 181734 [details]
WPS Office use case

The expected use case from other office suites: when you select the Slide Master View it shows ALL the Slide masters for that template presentation. When you close Master View it goes back to only the slides on the presentation.
I would adopt the same behaviour.
Comment 12 Pedro 2022-08-12 08:05:31 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8)
> Sorry for the noise, found another point for consideration. In bug 62332
> it's requested to bind the layout to the master. The template should at
> least consider the different layouts like done at "Vintage" where "Standard
> 3" suits well the "Title and 2 Content" layout. The idea of bug 62332 is to
> automatically pick the layout that a master is designed for.

That seems to be quite unrelated to this.
Comment 13 Buovjaga 2022-08-12 08:37:18 UTC
(In reply to Pedro from comment #11)
> Created attachment 181734 [details]
> WPS Office use case
> 
> The expected use case from other office suites: when you select the Slide
> Master View it shows ALL the Slide masters for that template presentation.
> When you close Master View it goes back to only the slides on the
> presentation.
> I would adopt the same behaviour.

Impress already does the same, so I don't get your point, sorry.
Comment 14 Pedro 2022-08-12 12:12:46 UTC
When I select "Master Slide" in "View" Tab or "Master View" in the Properties content panel from the Sidebar, it only shows me one Master Slide. It does not show all the other Slide Designs associated with a specific Master Slide.
Could you tell me how you achieve this? I can see the other layouts if I go throught the "Available Master Slides" dialog...
Comment 15 Pedro 2022-08-12 12:14:30 UTC
Sorry, the  way Master Slides and layouts are implemented in Impress are byzantine and completely unintuitive.
Comment 16 Buovjaga 2022-08-12 12:22:44 UTC
(In reply to Pedro from comment #14)
> When I select "Master Slide" in "View" Tab or "Master View" in the
> Properties content panel from the Sidebar, it only shows me one Master
> Slide. It does not show all the other Slide Designs associated with a
> specific Master Slide.
> Could you tell me how you achieve this? I can see the other layouts if I go
> throught the "Available Master Slides" dialog...

If I create a new presentation with the Candy template, then do

View - Master Slide

I see in the left-hand slide pane all the different master slides, 11 in total.
Comment 17 Pedro 2022-08-12 12:43:28 UTC
Created attachment 181740 [details]
Impress Master view results.

I did the following steps:
1 - open new presentation.
2 - Go to Sidebar Content Panel Master Slides
3 - Select Candy
4 - Go to View -> Master Slide
This is the resulting view.
Comment 18 Buovjaga 2022-08-12 13:00:18 UTC
(In reply to Pedro from comment #17)
> Created attachment 181740 [details]
> Impress Master view results.
> 
> I did the following steps:
> 1 - open new presentation.
> 2 - Go to Sidebar Content Panel Master Slides
> 3 - Select Candy
> 4 - Go to View -> Master Slide
> This is the resulting view.

Ok, so you are using the Tabbed interface, but somehow you have also managed to show the menus. I don't know how to show the menus on top of the Tabbed interface. Maybe you ran into some edge case bug.

If in the Tabbed UI I go to Master tab and click Master Slide, I get the same view as in the standard UI and View - Master Slide.
Comment 19 Eyal Rozenberg 2022-08-12 13:13:19 UTC
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #10)
> Created attachment 181721 [details]
> Mockup of master slide sidebar view
> Eyal: what do you think?

The thumbnails are nice, bud the bread-and-butter of this feature would be a list. Remember that the number of slides for some masters will be in the dozens. Also, if we have the thumbnails, we need numbers next to them (e.g. below them). That might be enough for me.

Of course, if master slides had names / category names, that would have been interesting to see as well, but we don't have that right now.

But - where would this sidebar be located? I don't see any master-slide-related sidebar right now. And would this sidebar come up automatically when switching to master view?
Comment 20 Buovjaga 2022-08-12 13:30:44 UTC
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #19)
> (In reply to Buovjaga from comment #10)
> > Created attachment 181721 [details]
> > Mockup of master slide sidebar view
> > Eyal: what do you think?
> 
> The thumbnails are nice, bud the bread-and-butter of this feature would be a
> list. Remember that the number of slides for some masters will be in the
> dozens. Also, if we have the thumbnails, we need numbers next to them (e.g.
> below them). That might be enough for me.

List was first on my mind, but I thought thumbnails might be requested next :) List could be fine as the actual implementation.

> Of course, if master slides had names / category names, that would have been
> interesting to see as well, but we don't have that right now.
> 
> But - where would this sidebar be located? I don't see any
> master-slide-related sidebar right now. And would this sidebar come up
> automatically when switching to master view?

This sidebar deck exists already. I just added the new section in GIMP. You see it when you go to View - Master Slide. It's the Properties deck in that context and I think it would fit just fine.
Comment 21 Pedro 2022-08-12 14:02:55 UTC
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #18)
> (In reply to Pedro from comment #17)
> > Created attachment 181740 [details]
> > Impress Master view results.
> > 
> > I did the following steps:
> > 1 - open new presentation.
> > 2 - Go to Sidebar Content Panel Master Slides
> > 3 - Select Candy
> > 4 - Go to View -> Master Slide
> > This is the resulting view.
> 
> Ok, so you are using the Tabbed interface, but somehow you have also managed
> to show the menus. I don't know how to show the menus on top of the Tabbed
> interface. Maybe you ran into some edge case bug.
> 
> If in the Tabbed UI I go to Master tab and click Master Slide, I get the
> same view as in the standard UI and View - Master Slide.

You can see the menu in Tabbed UI by clicking the button before the open button that says menu bar.
I still can't see the other templates in the Master slide view.
Comment 22 Eyal Rozenberg 2022-08-12 14:05:28 UTC
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #20)
> List was first on my mind, but I thought thumbnails might be requested next
> :) List could be fine as the actual implementation.

Actually, probably not quite. I mean, people would immediately ask for some kind of graphical representation rather than a bunch of text. Maybe thumbnails and numbers are a good way to go.

> It's the Properties deck 

Right :-)
Comment 23 Heiko Tietze 2022-08-12 14:40:32 UTC
(In reply to Pedro from comment #21)
> I still can't see the other templates in the Master slide view.

You may have run into bug 98423. By creating your presentation from a template using the template manager you load all master slides of this template (as a sample and in the list of master slides at the Properties tab). The dedicated "master slide" tab allows to insert a master slide from different templates though it's only the first one. Alternative you may use the dialog.