Bug 153721 - Rename "Move Chapter Up/Down" to "Move Heading+Text Up/Down" in Navigator
Summary: Rename "Move Chapter Up/Down" to "Move Heading+Text Up/Down" in Navigator
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
7.6.0.0 alpha0+
Hardware: All All
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard: target:7.6.0 target:24.2.0 target:7.6...
Keywords:
Depends on: Clarify-Chapter-Heading-Outline-Level
Blocks: Navigator
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2023-02-19 00:38 UTC by sdc.blanco
Modified: 2023-08-29 06:55 UTC (History)
3 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
test file for moving headings (29.33 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2023-05-24 13:55 UTC, sdc.blanco
Details

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Description sdc.blanco 2023-02-19 00:38:19 UTC
"Move Chapter Up/Down" commands in Navigator move "headings with the immediately following text until the next heading".

Main problem is that "chapter" is wrong/misleading about action of command.

Proposal:

"Move Chapter Up"  ->  "Move Heading and Text Up"
"Move Chapter Down" ->  "Move Heading and Text Down"

Variations:

1. If length is a problem, maybe drop "Move"

2. Put important action first:

Up: Heading and Text
Down: Heading and Text
Comment 1 sdc.blanco 2023-02-19 00:42:30 UTC
Same problem with “Delete Chapter”

Maybe:  “Delete Heading and Text”

or  “Delete: Heading and Text”
Comment 2 Jim Raykowski 2023-02-19 20:34:59 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #0)
> "Move Chapter Up/Down" commands in Navigator move "headings with the
> immediately following text until the next heading".
> 
> Main problem is that "chapter" is wrong/misleading about action of command.
> 
> Proposal:
> 
> "Move Chapter Up"  ->  "Move Heading and Text Up"
> "Move Chapter Down" ->  "Move Heading and Text Down"

Possibly: Move Outline Heading and Content Up/Down
Comment 3 Heiko Tietze 2023-02-20 11:02:22 UTC
Sounds good. Wonder if the shorter "Move Outline Up/Down" is precise enough and still easy to understand.
Comment 4 Jim Raykowski 2023-02-20 19:20:25 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3)
> Sounds good. Wonder if the shorter "Move Outline Up/Down" is precise enough
> and still easy to understand.

+1

There is the case when the ctrl key is held and the Up/Down tool button is pressed that moves the outline without sub outlines. Not sure it's worth trying to figuring out how to make the button tooltip account for that. Sounds like fun though.
Comment 5 sdc.blanco 2023-02-21 00:49:13 UTC
Resisting "outline" as too ambiguous (for general user)

And what about the "Delete"? (comment 1) Delete Outline?

Will highlight again the last two lines of OP.

  Up: Heading and Text
  Down: Heading and Text

  Delete: Heading and Text

1. No need to mention "Move" -- it is implicit in Up and Down.
2. "Heading" in command name links to section title "Headings"


About Tooltip. First quick thought:  Press Ctrl to move heading without subheadings.
Comment 6 Jim Raykowski 2023-02-21 06:09:19 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #5)
> About Tooltip. First quick thought:  Press Ctrl to move heading without
> subheadings.
+1
 
I had my thinking cap on too tight with the tooltip changes when ctrl is pressed idea <:-).
Comment 7 Heiko Tietze 2023-02-21 07:23:10 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #5)
> Will highlight again the last two lines of OP.

Not a fan of just Up/Down, with Move it sounds a bit more usual; but the thing is that this action colon specification indicates that we provide similar action like "Up: Table" or "Down: Section". 

And don't we talk about tooltips?
Comment 8 sdc.blanco 2023-02-21 11:52:44 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #7)
> And don't we talk about tooltips?
In part.  Label would appear as tooltip for up/down arrows in Navigator panel.
But also in Headings context menu.

> thing is that this action colon specification indicates that we provide
> similar action like "Up: Table" or "Down: Section". 
Not persuasive.  "Move" has same affordance.  But there is no Move command in the Table and Section (or other sections) of Navigator (afaik). It is only in Headings.

> Not a fan of just Up/Down, with Move it sounds a bit more usual;
I agree that Up/Down is unfamiliar, but these words also appear with "Move".

More critical for OP:  the other part "Chapter" / "Heading".  

simple solution:  "Chapter" -> "Heading"

ambitious solution: some indication that text under the heading is also moved!

The Up/Down solution in OP was a way to:

a. put the important action first (even if not a verb).
b. keep the label short (for tooltip and context menu)
c. give indication that both heading and text is moved 

btw -- might not be possible to make tooltips here, because "tooltip" for the panel/context menu is used to give the command name.
Comment 9 sdc.blanco 2023-03-14 23:08:23 UTC
How about:

Heading and Text Up
Heading and Text Down
Delete Heading and Text
Comment 10 Heiko Tietze 2023-03-15 10:39:43 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #9)
> How about:... Heading and Text Up

(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #7)
> Not a fan of just Up/Down, with Move it sounds a bit more usual

But not blocking
Comment 11 sdc.blanco 2023-03-15 13:14:06 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #10)
> > Not a fan of just Up/Down, with Move it sounds a bit more usual
Proposal in comment 9 was made because objections are raised sometimes to "too long" labels. 

iiuc, you would prefer what was in the OP?

Move Heading and Text Up
Move Heading and Text Down
Delete Heading and Text


Fine with me. Main interest of OP is to remove "Chapter". 

Beyond that, no strong opinion about the rest -- 
but fwiw, to explain the perspective behind my alternative proposals: 
Look at the context menu for Headings in the current Navigator. If we used eye-tracking equipment, it would register (for me) that I look first at the far left (to see what is different -- most of it is), then for "Move Chapter" which appears twice, it would show a shift to the far right edge. (the "differentiating" feature being Up/Down (see comment 5).)  This "ease of identification" perspective motivated my comments here. With the long version from the OP, I suppose with time, I would learn to look immediately to the right of the context menu, when wanting to move up and down. (-:
Comment 12 Heiko Tietze 2023-03-15 14:10:24 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #11)
> iiuc, you would prefer what was in the OP?
> 
> Move Heading and Text Up
> Move Heading and Text Down
> Delete Heading and Text

I think "Move Heading Up/Down" is sufficient. The details with text and sub-levels depending on Ctrlbelong to a tooltip. But adding "and Text" is also acceptable - and appropriate for Delete.
Comment 13 sdc.blanco 2023-03-15 18:16:17 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #12)
> I think "Move Heading Up/Down" is sufficient. The details with text and
> sub-levels depending on Ctrlbelong to a tooltip. 
To avoid misunderstandings.

1.  According to "help" [1] for "Move Chapter Up"

"Moves the selected heading, and the text below the heading, up one heading position in the Navigator and in the document."

This description also corresponds to my experience, both with the context menu and with the icons in the Navigator panel -- both heading and its text is moved -- Ctrl is not involved.

If that understanding is correct, then this behavior would not be apparent if the context menu (for headings) and the icon tooltip in Navigator panel show only "Move Heading Up"

2.  Also according to "help" 

"To move only the selected heading and not the text associated with the heading, hold down Ctrl, and then click this icon."

(I could not get this work, with 7.2.7.2 or 7.6.0.0.alpha0+.  I have a memory that I could get it to work, but have not succeeded today.)

(assuming the help is correct), Would the pressed "Ctrl" also work with the context menu in Navigator?  (if not, then "Move Heading Up" would be misleading)


3.  About tooltips.  

For Navigator panel:  The tooltips are used to give the icon names. Additional information about Ctrl, etc., could only be given in extended tips (which are not visible at present for the Navigator panel, bug 153483).  

  => cannot rely on tooltips for Navigator panel

For context menu:  iiuc, this is implemented in navigatorcontextmenu.ui, and it appears that it would be possible to use tooltips, but is the proposal then, for example, that

"Move Heading Down"  would have a tooltip that says (for example) 
     "If you want to move the heading alone, then press Ctrl"

    (but if "Ctrl" does not work with context menu ? )


[1] https://help.libreoffice.org/7.6/en-US/text/swriter/01/02110000.html


Happy to receive confirmations for or corrections to this analysis.
Not trying to promote a particular solution.  
Just seeking a way forward that gives a meaningful result.
Comment 14 sdc.blanco 2023-05-24 13:55:14 UTC
Created attachment 187478 [details]
test file for moving headings

Trying to finish this ticket before the coming (1 July) string freeze.

Attached is a test file that makes me wonder about whether the help page (see comment 13) is accurate (or whether the move up/down command is working as expected).

1.  Open test file.
2.  Place cursor in the the red "heading level 1" and "Move Chapter Up"
     Actual:  Heading and text are moved above the green "Heading level 2"
3.  Leave cursor in red "Heading level 1" and now "Move Chapter down" 
    Actual:  Both red "Heading level 1" and green "Heading level 2" are moved down after the green "Heading level 1"

(4. Similarly, open the test file, use move chapter down on the first black "Heading level 1", then this heading and all subheadings and text are moved to after the red "Heading level 1")

In sum:  It appears that "Move Chapter Down" moves the selected heading and all its subheadings to appear after the next occurrence of a heading AT THE SAME OUTLINE LEVEL (if it is available).  While "Move Chapter Up" moves a heading and its text to appear before the next heading above it (regardless of the outline level).  Is this asymmetry intended?
Comment 15 sdc.blanco 2023-05-24 13:57:31 UTC
comment 14 tested with:

Version: 7.6.0.0.alpha1+ (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: f3aab159f1c1e00c25e6b4ca1e50813bc343f4f3
CPU threads: 8; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 19045; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL: win
Locale: da-DK (da_DK); UI: en-US
Calc: CL threaded
Comment 16 Heiko Tietze 2023-05-25 10:09:09 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #14)
> In sum:  It appears that "Move Chapter Down" moves the selected heading and
> all its subheadings to appear after the next occurrence of a heading AT THE
> SAME OUTLINE LEVEL (if it is available). 

1. One H1
1.1. one_A (H2)
1.2. one_B (H2)
2. Two (H1)
2.1. Two_A (H2)
2.1. Two_B (H2)
3. Three (H1)
3.1. Three_A (H2)
3.2. Three_B (H2)

Moving 2. with 7.5 moves all 2.x content above 1. while with 7.6 it becomes the last chapter of 1. (after one_A with one_B becoming the third heading of 2.). I think it's a regression. Jim, any idea?
Comment 17 Jim Raykowski 2023-05-25 23:39:30 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #14)
> In sum:  It appears that "Move Chapter Down" moves the selected heading and
> all its subheadings to appear after the next occurrence of a heading AT THE
> SAME OUTLINE LEVEL (if it is available).  While "Move Chapter Up" moves a
> heading and its text to appear before the next heading above it (regardless
> of the outline level).  Is this asymmetry intended?
I don't think this is intended. The "Move Chapter Up" is behaving as if the Ctrl key modifier is being used. Try Ctrl + "Move Chapter Down" in step 3. For me, the heading is moved back to it's original position.

Looking into it.
Comment 18 Jim Raykowski 2023-05-26 00:00:33 UTC
(In reply to Jim Raykowski from comment #17)
> I don't think this is intended. The "Move Chapter Up" is behaving as if the
> Ctrl key modifier is being used. Try Ctrl + "Move Chapter Down" in step 3.
> For me, the heading is moved back to it's original position.
Please ignore this.

but not this
> Looking into it.
Comment 19 Jim Raykowski 2023-05-26 05:04:27 UTC
The fix for bug 154212 is likely what has caused the behavior change.

Give the following chapter structure, what should the result for Chapter 1.3 (outline level 2) move chapter down be?

Chapter 1 (outline level 1)
Chapter 1.1 (outline level 2)
Chapter 1.2 (outline level 2)
Chapter 1.3 (outline level 2)    <-- move chapter down    
Chapter 1.3.1 (outline level 3)
Chapter 1.3.2 (outline level 3)
Chapter 2 (outline level 1)
Heading with outline level 3
Chapter 2.1 (outline level 2)
Chapter 2.2 (outline level 2)
Chapter 3 (outline level 1)


Current master build result:

Chapter 1 (outline level 1)
Chapter 1.1 (outline level 2)
Chapter 1.2 (outline level 2)
Chapter 2 (outline level 1)
Chapter 1.3 (outline level 2)    <-- chapter is moved here
Chapter 1.3.1 (outline level 3)
Chapter 1.3.2 (outline level 3)
Heading with outline level 3
Chapter 2.1 (outline level 2)
Chapter 2.2 (outline level 2)
Chapter 3 (outline level 1)


7.3.7.2 result:

Chapter 1 (outline level 1)
Chapter 1.1 (outline level 2)
Chapter 1.2 (outline level 2)
Chapter 2 (outline level 1)
Heading with outline level 3
Chapter 1.3 (outline level 2)    <-- chapter is moved here
Chapter 1.3.1 (outline level 3)
Chapter 1.3.2 (outline level 3)
Chapter 2.1 (outline level 2)
Chapter 2.2 (outline level 2)
Chapter 3 (outline level 1)


I wonder if the chapter moves should move a sub chapter out of its parent chapter at all.
Comment 20 sdc.blanco 2023-05-26 08:36:55 UTC
(In reply to Jim Raykowski from comment #19)
> The fix for bug 154212 is likely what has caused the behavior change.
wondered about that...
> I wonder if the chapter moves should move a sub chapter out of its parent
> chapter at all.
As an occasional user of this feature.....here are some random remarks....
1. There are probably good use cases for both variations (because it depends on the content of document, including its conceptual relations, which can change during the text production phase, which is why one wants to move sections) ==> will be hard to justify one version over another, if there is only going to be one form of behavior.
2. As a user, it is useful to know what to expect (no matter which functionality is chosen) -- which also implies clear documentation.
3. If only one functionality is chosen, then make it the simplest one (e.g., move heading and text to above/below the next heading, no matter what outline level). 
Reason: easy to predict what will happen. 
4. If only one section is moved, then just click multiple times to get desired result. (not so hard)
5. (With outline folding, I believe it is possible to move larger chunks of text).
6. Most important is symmetry (i.e., up and down have the same effect. In this way, if you move something up (or down) (and do not like the result), then you can use down (or up) to undo.

More ambitious comments....
7. In the modern interface, what about drag and drop in the Navigator?  That is, instead of move up/down, you can select one or more headings, and then drag them to where you want in the outline structure. That would be ideal (and would make move up and down irrelevant, i.e, could be removed).
Comment 21 Jim Raykowski 2023-05-28 00:42:20 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #20)
> 1. There are probably good use cases for both variations (because it depends
> on the content of document, including its conceptual relations, which can
> change during the text production phase, which is why one wants to move
> sections) ==> will be hard to justify one version over another, if there is
> only going to be one form of behavior.
> 2. As a user, it is useful to know what to expect (no matter which
> functionality is chosen) -- which also implies clear documentation.
> 3. If only one functionality is chosen, then make it the simplest one (e.g.,
> move heading and text to above/below the next heading, no matter what
> outline level). 
> Reason: easy to predict what will happen. 
> 4. If only one section is moved, then just click multiple times to get
> desired result. (not so hard)
> 5. (With outline folding, I believe it is possible to move larger chunks of
> text).
> 6. Most important is symmetry (i.e., up and down have the same effect. In
> this way, if you move something up (or down) (and do not like the result),
> then you can use down (or up) to undo.
>
Effort to restore chapter move behavior to what it was before the patch committed to fix bug 154212 and keep comment 19 behavior from master:
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/152347

> More ambitious comments....
> 7. In the modern interface, what about drag and drop in the Navigator?  That
> is, instead of move up/down, you can select one or more headings, and then
> drag them to where you want in the outline structure. That would be ideal
> (and would make move up and down irrelevant, i.e, could be removed).
Chapters can be moved by drag and drop when the Navigator is in Headings Content Navigation View.
Comment 22 sdc.blanco 2023-05-31 16:16:32 UTC
(In reply to Jim Raykowski from comment #21)
> Chapters can be moved by drag and drop when the Navigator is in Headings
> Content Navigation View.
Is there any reason why this feature cannot be active in the other mode of Navigator?
(which would then make the move up/down commands irrelevant in the context menu).
Comment 23 Commit Notification 2023-06-03 18:48:06 UTC
Jim Raykowski committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/4f69e1b07c12ebd8c3655f3205bff143d1ee1a1b

tdf#153721 SwNavigator: fix chapter move

It will be available in 7.6.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 24 Commit Notification 2023-06-26 12:19:28 UTC
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/be19f007db146e9b22c1f01dacec0840e44929cb

tdf#153721  label change: "Move Chapter..." -> "Move Heading..."

It will be available in 24.2.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 25 sdc.blanco 2023-06-26 12:28:15 UTC
Will change "Chapter" to "Heading" -- but was uncertain whether the tooltips in the Navigator panel should be Title case or sentence case -- guidelines were ambiguous for me.  Here is a version with Title case.

https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/153591
Comment 26 Mike Kaganski 2023-06-26 13:35:09 UTC
(In reply to Commit Notification from comment #24)
> tdf#153721  label change: "Move Chapter..." -> "Move Heading..."

Ohhhh... So now user would see "move heading" for what moves a *chapter* (or subchapter) - i.e., a body of text starting with a heading?

Heading is a single paragraph with an outline level. Chapter is the text body "belonging" to a outline-1 paragraph. I don't have a wording proposal, but IMO this change is a regression. Previously, an imprecise term was used, which meaning was clear from context. Now the term is wrong, implying a different action.
Comment 27 Commit Notification 2023-06-26 19:40:05 UTC
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/fb3dfbd57d91307de383d401c1caf4bb0d9029b9

tdf#153721  label change: "Move Chapter..." -> "Move Heading..."

It will be available in 24.2.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 28 Commit Notification 2023-06-27 13:30:21 UTC
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "libreoffice-7-6":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/87e626fedc68418fd91d4fc18d020562a2044e7f

tdf#153721  label change: "Move Chapter..." -> "Move Heading..."

It will be available in 7.6.0.0.beta2.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 29 Commit Notification 2023-06-27 13:31:24 UTC
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "libreoffice-7-6":

https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/90935d855d67766ec2a94415baa211608fce019a

tdf#153721  label change: "Move Chapter..." -> "Move Heading..."

It will be available in 7.6.0.0.beta2.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Comment 30 Commit Notification 2023-06-29 04:18:36 UTC
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

https://git.libreoffice.org/help/commit/6bba9672d36c691c779ce6d40bbf816e661ec882

related tdf#153721 new command names: move/delete "chapter" -> "heading"
Comment 31 Commit Notification 2023-06-29 10:15:42 UTC
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "libreoffice-7-6":

https://git.libreoffice.org/help/commit/f51d4267471199f2df1dda83a5928ed2981c11c2

related tdf#153721 new command names: move/delete "chapter" -> "heading"
Comment 32 Jim Raykowski 2023-07-02 02:42:49 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #22)
> Is there any reason why this feature cannot be active in the other mode of
> Navigator?
> (which would then make the move up/down commands irrelevant in the context
> menu).
Here is a patch that makes this feature active in the other mode of the Navigator:
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/153854

In addition to making the feature active in all content navigation view mode effort to improve a few other things Navigator related are include. Please see the patch commit message for details.
Comment 33 Jim Raykowski 2023-08-26 22:13:39 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #22)
> Is there any reason why this feature cannot be active in the other mode of
> Navigator?
> (which would then make the move up/down commands irrelevant in the context
> menu).

Whew! It took me some time to find your comment that I remembered being asked but forgot where it was asked. Here is a link to a patch that makes chapter moves possible by drag and drop when the Navigator is in the all-content-types/categories navigation view mode:
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/153854

I wonder if the tdf# for the patch should be associated with this bug report comment #22?
Comment 34 Jim Raykowski 2023-08-26 22:17:24 UTC Comment hidden (no-value)
Comment 35 sdc.blanco 2023-08-28 23:13:40 UTC
(In reply to Jim Raykowski from comment #33)
> I wonder if the tdf# for the patch should be associated with this bug report
> comment #22?
Probably your choice.  I can file a new ticket if it you think it is appropriate.

And then after that patch is merged, I will probably file another ticket to request UXEval about whether "Move/Delete" and "Promote/Demote" should be removed from the context menu because (a) there are buttons in the Navigator panel (and in the Bullet and Numbering bar, if heading numbering is used)  plus (b) the context menu for Headings is started to get (too?) crowded. -- unless that idea gets immediately slapped down here (-:
Comment 36 Heiko Tietze 2023-08-29 06:55:47 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #35)
> (a) there are buttons in the Navigator panel ... (b) the context menu
> for Headings is started to get (too?) crowded.

Moving headings around is one of the primary functions. Anyway, the discussion on an extra ticket sounds good to me.