A) Despite of a missing dictionary you can turn on spell checking, but the spell checking will not work. I downloaded version 7.4.7 from the de.* subdomain and in the installation routine the German dictionary was disabled. When I wrote the first text I turned on spell checking, but it did not work at all although having been switched on. B) I searched for a while and found out that the German dictionary was missing in the 7.4.7 installation file from de.libreoffice.org. That was an error in the distribution.
Seeing that you have "7.5.2.2" in the version field, do you mean that you still have the same issue in the 7.5 branch? Version 7.4 will not see further bugfix versions. Can you please try a clean install of the latest 7.5 release (currently 7.5.5) and let us know if you can still reproduce the issue: https://de.libreoffice.org/download/download/ Thank you!
The issue.A still exists in 7.5.5 The Issue.B was only existing in 7.4.7
Both are not a bug. The "issue" A is how it is designed to be. User may chose whatever language, for any part of the text, including those that don't have corresponding dictionaries installed. Having warnings about such a case would be highly intrusive; people receiving documents with languages that they don't have dictionaries for would have these by default, because spell check is enabled by default. But you may see it as a direct duplicate of bug 143689. The "issue" B is wrong - there was no "error in the distribution" on 7.4.7 on https://de.libreoffice.org/download/download/ (simply because we don't have different Windows distributions for different languages - the single MSI has all the UI languages, and all the dictionaries, including German, *of course*). It could be some issue in system language detection in the installer - which is responsible for the default set of dictionaries that are installed when user does not explicitly chose them.
A) But if you switch on spell checking, you expect the dictionary being there if no error message appears. Otherwise you are cheated.
A) The menu tools->language->for all text-> contained German although the German dictionary was not there.
(In reply to Jens-D Doll from comment #4) > A) > But if you switch on spell checking, you expect the dictionary being there > if no error message appears. Otherwise you are cheated. No. I can have a text with part of text German, part English, part Russian; and I only know Russian. I enable the check, and I'm OK that only Russian part is checked. I would be annoyed, if all languages that I don't know were underlined (distracting me needlessly), or if warning appeared every time I open a text with Chinese or Hebrew or Malayalam. A document where only German test exist, and no dictionary is installed, is just a corner case of such a setup. (In reply to Jens-D Doll from comment #5) > A) > The menu tools->language->for all text-> contained German although the > German dictionary was not there. Indeed. The *list* is not limited by installed dictionaries. You are free to mark your text as *any* language (not only those that are listed there, but even those that are unknown to the program, using ISO language tags). The language is a property of the text, and may be important for screen readers, PDF annotations, etc. - definitely not limited to spell check.
A) But if Tools->language->for selection-> German + is checked I expect the dictionary to be there. If I click upon German and no error message appears I also expect the dictionary to be there and feel otherwise cheated. So if the the dictionary is not there "German" must not appear in the menu.
(In reply to Jens-D Doll from comment #7) > A) > But if Tools->language->for selection-> German + is checked I expect the > dictionary to be there. I explained above, that it is just your incorrect expectation: you imagine, that this entry is somehow connected to spell check, while it is not, and is not intended to be. Marking selections of text as some language is the primary action; many different things *then* may use that language information, *including* spell check - but absolutely not limited to the spell check: hyphenation (which would define text layout); accessibility; PDF-A export; default number formats and field content... If some of these consumers of the language information do not have their data (like dictionary for spell check), it doesn't mean that the user can't have other legitimate reasons to mark that language.
Created attachment 188577 [details] explanation of bug
A) Have a look at the picture. This is definitely thought for spell checking. B) The missing German dictionary in 7.4.7 might have been be sabotage.
Please rename the menu item Tools-> Language to Tools -> Multiple Language or similar. It is embarrassing, because most of the documents are written in only one language.
(In reply to Jens-D Doll from comment #10) > A) > Have a look at the picture. This is definitely thought for spell checking. I suppose you refer to the "None (do not check spelling)" entry. Sigh - this is the other side of trying hard to improve user experience, by adding hints why one *could* use this entry. There is always a balance between clarity and confusion - in this case, this entry is named in such a way, that is creates an impression that it all is about spell checking. No it is not; and also there may be other reasons to use *that* item - but both removal of that text in parentheses, and making it longer, would not improve the situation. Just accept what you now know, that this text does not limit it to one function. > B) > The missing German dictionary in 7.4.7 might have been be sabotage. No, the dictionary is there. The installer can be downloaded from the download page, or from the download archive; installing it, and choosing custom setup, allows to see the German dictionary there. It was likely some kind of a user error, or some system configuration detail, that prevented *automatic* detection of the need to install it - but conspirology ideas like "sabotage" are odd, and off-topic here. (In reply to Jens-D Doll from comment #11) > Please rename the menu item Tools-> Language to Tools -> Multiple Language > or similar. It is embarrassing, because most of the documents are written in > only one language. Heh. I don't think it changes things even a little bit. But maybe UX has something to say here...
Created attachment 188578 [details] Configuration error in 7.4.7 The German dictionary was not set to install in 7.4.7, but is set to install in 7.5.5
The German dictionary was not set to install in 7.4.7, but is set to install in 7.5.5, see image.
[Automated Action] NeedInfo-To-Unconfirmed
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #6) > I would be annoyed, if all languages that I don't know were > underlined (distracting me needlessly)... Similarly users are annoyed by the missing feedback where either all text is correct or the dictionary is missing. How about an option "[x] Apply spell-checking if no dictionary is available"? Maybe not so good, but we could at least spell-check/mark the default document language. (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #12) > (In reply to Jens-D Doll from comment #11) > > Please rename the menu item Tools-> Language to Tools -> Multiple Language > Heh. I don't think it changes things even a little bit. Don't see an improvement either.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #16) > How about an option "[x] Apply > spell-checking if no dictionary is available"? Maybe not so good, but we > could at least spell-check/mark the default document language. I don't quite understand how is this expected to work. For simplicity, let's consider this text: "For simplicity, let's consider this text." Let the word "simplicity" be marked Russian, and the rest English (US). Imagine that you have en-US dictionary installed, and ru-RU absent. What would be your expected result for both automatic spell check (underline of spelling errors, Shift+F7), and for interactive spell check (dialog called using F7)? It would be nice to have a mockup, and discuss it.
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #17) > Imagine that you have en-US dictionary installed, and ru-RU absent. What > would be your expected result for both automatic spell check... To spell-check / underline "simplicity" if the default language is Russian regardless a dictionary is installed.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #18) > (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #17) > > Imagine that you have en-US dictionary installed, and ru-RU absent. What > > would be your expected result for both automatic spell check... > > To spell-check / underline "simplicity" if the default language is Russian > regardless a dictionary is installed. Why??? How would the program know that the word is misspelled? If it is not, then why would it be underlined?
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #19) > How would the program know that the word is misspelled? All words that are not ensured to be correct are marked (for the default language only). I can follow the OP's scenario, he installed the application assuming the dictionary was part of it. And there is no warning / info that it isn't.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #20) > I can follow the OP's scenario, he installed the application > assuming the dictionary was part of it. And there is no warning / info that > it isn't. So - do you say, that there is a reproducible scenario, where a clean new install does not install a dictionary for the system / user language, when they have it? Also: do you mean, that if my language has no built-in dictionary in LibreOffice, I would have everything underlined? Assuming that something is installed is simply a user error. Not installing a matching dictionary automatically is a bug that needs fixing. But I disagree that any "default language without dictionary" needs such a nonsense underline. If at all, we could have a *one-time* infobar, like for "support LO", telling the user that "the default language for new document has no installed dictionary".
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #21) > If at all, we could have a *one-time* infobar, like for > "support LO", telling the user that "the default language for new document > has no installed dictionary". Would be a compromise. Actually we have kind of a tri-state situation with correct/incorrect/not-installed. And we could have the language selection "amended" by the option to enable spellchecking. Doubt user would understand it, though. Perhaps it boils down to the infobar plus RTFM.
Another data point: These days, there could be more reasons to *not* install a spell checker dictionaries. We now have a built-in LanguageTool support (online service); and while that is *not* a spell checker (in LibreOffice nomenclature: it's a grammar checker), it in fact does a spell check of its own. So I could opt to avoid the spell checker in my LO installation (to save precious 100 KB of disk space ;-D), and rely on that.
Somehow we need to show the missing dictionary. Maybe not an infobar but in the spell check dialog? It shows "Text language: [None]" if the dictionary is disabled / not installed, which could be more informative.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #24) This would not be a good fix. Say, you have no "default language" dictionary; but you have another dictionary, and there is a word of that language in the text. If that word has a spelling error, it will be shown in the end. On the other hand, you may have *all* languages of the document having their dictionaries; as long as there is no spelling errors in the document, the check will end up with "None". It says nothing about installed / needed dictionaries. If you focus on the dialog, we could add a summary to the *final message* - the one that says "The spellcheck is complete". The data *there* could include: 1. The number of words, sentences, paragraphs checked (potentially in selection); 2. The number of mistakes found, fixed, ignored; 3. The list of languages in the checked text - and here, we could also add marks which of these languages had no dictionaries, and thus, excluded from the check. Since this dialog is shown anyway, it is OK to add more text to it - no additional nag. Who needs that, could read; who doesn't, may skip. The details could hide under a collapsing section ("More / Details", like "Other Options" in F&R dialog) if wanted... Note that before we finished, we have no such statistics - the spell check goes sequentially through the document/selection, and only after the end, we know for sure if there was some dictionary missing. Note also, that this would avoid the strange "only care about the "default" language".
Jens, how about this idea? Would you have learned from such a message that installing a dictionary is necessary?
The solution is very simple to me a) If I switch on spell ckeck and there is no dictionary for the language concerned I expect an error message. b) I also want to see somehow if spell check is switched on.
So let's go with Mike's idea to show some details on the summary dialog. (In reply to Jens-D Doll from comment #27) > I also want to see somehow if spell check is switched on. It is on by default, see Tools > Automatic Spell Checking (Shift+F7).
b) ut I can't see if spell check is switched off. How to?
(In reply to Jens-D Doll from comment #29) > ut I can't see if spell check is switched off. How to? The checkbox is checked - spell checker is working in the background - or not and you don't get the wavy underlining.
I don't see a checkbox when entering text the usual way. It's hidden in options.
Created attachment 189088 [details] Screenshot Auto SC