Bug 159470 - Spelling and Language support in LibreOffice Writer unusable
Summary: Spelling and Language support in LibreOffice Writer unusable
Status: RESOLVED DUPLICATE of bug 143308
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
7.6.4.1 release
Hardware: All All
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: needsUXEval
Depends on:
Blocks: Spell-Checking
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Reported: 2024-01-31 11:08 UTC by Alexander Dietz
Modified: 2024-02-19 14:23 UTC (History)
4 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


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Description Alexander Dietz 2024-01-31 11:08:42 UTC
Description:
I have been using LibreOffice quite some time but I always have problems using the spell check for a language. 

Currently I have been opening a document in German and want to spell check in German. So I click on "Tools" -> "Spelling..." and a window opens where no language is selected. Clicking on "Text language" I see a long list of languages and select "German (Germany)", but nothing happens.

There should be some popup or anything that shows that "German (Germany)" is not installed, or needs to installed. But just doing nothing it tremendously user-unfriendly and not intuitive. 

Secondly, when choosing “Tools” → “Language” → “For Selection” the language is selected ("German {de}"), but I cannot select that language for

“Tools” → “Language” → “For Paragraph”
“Tools” → “Language” → “For All Text”

It seems that the phrase "German {de}" maybe means an incorrect installation of the German language pack? If so, then this incorrect language pack should not be shown!

I also went to “Tools” → “Language” → “More Dictionaries online” and installed the language pack for the language I want the document spelled. That did work and the language check was done in German. 

However, the next time I opened LibreOffice I again cannot choose the German language. I try to select "German {de}" but it doe s not help. I also cannot reinstall the German language pack, as it is still installed!



Steps to Reproduce:
1. Open LibreOffice Writer
2. Try to spell check a document in German language
3. 

Actual Results:
No information whatsoever if a language pack is not installed, also unable to select a language package.

Expected Results:
EASY way to select a language package, clear feedback (popup) if there is something wrong with a language pack with the ability to install the language pack. 


Reproducible: Always


User Profile Reset: No

Additional Info:
Feedback about the language pack
Easy way to select the AVAILABLE language packs and not just do nothing
Comment 1 Rafael Lima 2024-01-31 12:06:09 UTC
In Tools - Options - Language and Locale - General, the options in the dropdown "Default Language for Documents - Western" have an icon to the left of the languages that have spelling support.

For me, when clicking "Tools - Spelling", only supported languages are shown in "Text language".

Do you have any spelling extensions installed for German?
Comment 2 Alexander Dietz 2024-01-31 14:18:10 UTC
I do not know if I have spelling extensions installed in German. 

You mean on the LibreOffice level or on MacOS level? And how to find out?
Comment 3 Rafael Lima 2024-01-31 14:32:37 UTC
(In reply to Alexander Dietz from comment #2)
> You mean on the LibreOffice level or on MacOS level? And how to find out?

To see your installed extensions, go to Tools - Extensions and see if you have any German spell-checker installed.

If not, you can try installing the extension required for German at:
https://extensions.libreoffice.org/en/extensions/show/german-de-de-frami-dictionaries

You can find out about this extension by going to Tools - Language - More dictionaries online. And then search for your language and click install.

Let me know if this fixes your issue.
Comment 4 Alexander Dietz 2024-01-31 15:35:10 UTC
In "Tools" -> "Extensions" (so far that proves that spell-checking in Libre Office is impossible for a normal user!) I see

- German (DE-frami) spelling
- German (DE-igerman98) spelling

And now? I am not even sure what this exactly is! That is really complicated and not intuitive. That proves my whole point of this very bug!
Comment 5 Rafael Lima 2024-01-31 17:41:24 UTC
(In reply to Alexander Dietz from comment #4)
> In "Tools" -> "Extensions" (so far that proves that spell-checking in Libre
> Office is impossible for a normal user!) I see

AFAIK most applications will required the installation of additional packages to add languages for proof-reading.

LO can't come with support for all languages preinstalled, or else the installer would become huge.

(In reply to Alexander Dietz from comment #4)
> - German (DE-frami) spelling
> - German (DE-igerman98) spelling

Apparently you have the required extensions for German, but since I don't use this language, I can't test if it works or not. We have many German-speaking contributors, so let's wait to hear from them.
Comment 6 Alexander Dietz 2024-02-01 06:50:26 UTC
This bug is not specifically about using the German spell checker. This bug is about the non-intuitive of all the language spell-checking setup in LibreOffice which in my opinion is totally confusing and user unfriendly. I am a professional software tester and have seen many software and technically very capable. But the LibreOffice spell-checking language setup is not usable for me at all.
Comment 7 Alex Thurgood 2024-02-01 19:46:22 UTC
@Alexander

Is LibreOffice installed from the Appstore or did you download it and the corresponding language pack from the LibreOffice website?

What you are describing rings a bell for me, but I would need to check again whether the problem you are experiencing is in the latest versions available.
Comment 8 Alex Thurgood 2024-02-01 19:58:38 UTC
There is what appears to be a similar issue reported in bug 109090
Comment 9 Rafael Lima 2024-02-01 23:58:56 UTC
(In reply to Alexander Dietz from comment #6)
> This bug is not specifically about using the German spell checker. This bug
> is about the non-intuitive of all the language spell-checking setup in
> LibreOffice which in my opinion is totally confusing and user unfriendly. I
> am a professional software tester and have seen many software and
> technically very capable. But the LibreOffice spell-checking language setup
> is not usable for me at all.

Given this comment, I think we should have some input from the UX team. Is there anything we can do to improve this experience?
Comment 10 Alexander Dietz 2024-02-02 05:37:55 UTC
So, when I select "Language" from the "Tools" menu, it seems that this ""language"" is not just for spell checking but also for other purposes. 

First, is this documented somewhere? I found just this page: https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/en-GB/text/shared/01/06010500.html?&DbPAR=WRITER&System=MAC but it seems a bit restricting. It does not really explain what the language selection under "Tools" -> "Language" really means.

Second, it is not clear - and not documented(?) what that green checkmark means. In some other forum I asked about this and it seems this green checkmark indicates the installed language. But I see a green checkmark for "For selection", but not in "For paragraph" or "For all text". Does this mean the language is installed only when I check a selection? I am really positive that there is a kind of bug, or some misconfiguration or something. 

Third, then I choose "Tools" -> "Spelling" this opens the spelling dialog where no language is selected. When I choose "German (Germany)" then nothing happens. I would expect that either the spell checking starts, or to "save" that spell-checking language as the language I want to use for spell checking. When I close this dialog and open it again, the selected language is gone. 

Fourth, it seems that when I choose a spell-checking language (which I can chose via "Preferences" -> "Language Settings"  -> "Languages"), for example "German (Germany)" then the spell checking works via "Tools" -> "Spelling". I find it non-intuitive that you have to select the spell-checking language via "Preferences".

Fifth, when I quit LibreOffice and reopen the document, my settings seem to have vanished. I have to go to "Preferences" -> "Language Settings"  -> "Languages" again to select "German (Germany)". Until then I only see the language listed as "German {de}". 

As I hopefully have shown (which I also can do via skype etc), I find the spell-checking language non-intuitive, and there are functionalities that I am sure do not work as supposed to. Let me know if you have more specific questions.
Comment 11 Heiko Tietze 2024-02-02 12:01:43 UTC
All good points, and it becomes even harder for documents with mixed languages, in case of CJK/CTL, if you add hyphenation. We have many tickets around this topic, a while ago I made a mockup for bug 132505, a hot topic is bug 103036, and bug 132505 has something about the options.

Basically, the language is a character attribute but can also set for the paragraph. You define via tools > options > language what the default should be (or in the template). Dictionaries and hyphenation are 3rd party tools, with a clumsy interaction under Writing Aids. I can imagine shortcuts to make this easier, eg. an infobar if a dictionary is not installed offering the download, but basically extensions are a flexible way to enhance the application.

Ultimately I don't know how to deal with this ticket. It has so many facets that no single patch can solve the issue.
Comment 12 Heiko Tietze 2024-02-06 10:00:10 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #11)
> Ultimately I don't know how to deal with this ticket. It has so many facets
> that no single patch can solve the issue.
Stephané, what do you think?
Comment 13 Alexander Dietz 2024-02-07 05:11:36 UTC
Here is a suggestion about the "language" menu how I could imagine how it can be improved. Not sure how hard it would be to implement, but it seems more consistent. I also would be available to test this or a related feature...

The suggestion is for the submenus

“Tools” → “Language” → “For Section”
“Tools” → “Language” → “For Paragraph”
“Tools” → “Language” → “For all text”

1. They all should work the same. That means a checkmark at the beginning indicates the selected language attribute for the selected part.
2. As far as I know for "paragraph" and "all text" you do not have a checkmark as it might take a longer time for larger text to apply a language attribute to the "paragraph" or "all text". Maybe a popup can ask the user if he/she wants to apply the language attributes which can take a longer time (>10 seconds).
3. Also as far as I know the languages shown in the “Tools” → “Language” are "suggested" languages, i.e. based on the words used in these parts. That is fine, but an indication if this suggested language is installed or not would be really great. And if a language is not installed a click on that language would open the language installer for this specific language. 

Example
   German (Germany) CLICK TO INSTALL
   English (UK) INSTALLED
   English (US) INSTALLED

i.e. really complete information in the list of languages clearly visible to the user.

4. When a language is shown as "installed", it should be checked beforehand if that language really is installed. I had some issues with some "German {de}" language but it seem to had some issues, i.e. when selected it did not check anything. So it maybe was not or incorrectly installed? 

Let me know any questions or how I can help with testing ...
Comment 14 Heiko Tietze 2024-02-12 08:13:05 UTC
(In reply to Alexander Dietz from comment #13)
> 1. ....a checkmark at the beginning indicates the selected language attribute
And what if the paragraph or section contains more than one language? Think of some inline citation: "And as the Latin emperor said 'Vini, Vidi, Vici'."

And in the end a simple renaming wont support average users. We need to address the requirements:
a) Install dictionaries and hyphenation
b) Clear feedback what is available and where it is effective
c) Configure the above to be used
d) Introduce some heuristics to automatically apply the right language

We likely have tickets for all aspects (the META ticket linguistics holds 820 open items) and searching for "install" returns

bug 75734: Spell checking doesn't warn users if the selected dictionary isn't installed, but rather returns a potentially incorrect result 
bug 153360: Languagetool 7.4 not working with languages different from default language
bug 68576: Pre-installed User-defined Dictionaries Can be neither Modified nor Deleted
bug 143308: LO Writer: refine custom dictionary installation

Adding more tickets is not helpful.
Comment 15 Heiko Tietze 2024-02-19 14:23:00 UTC
Going for bug 143308 as duplicate.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 143308 ***