Description: In libreoffice calc, the order of the sheets are now displayed in opposite direction to the sheet. For example when there are more than one sheet and a sheet is made rtl the names of the sheets are displayed from left to righ, which is very annoying. This problem wasn't in previous versions. And I want to ask, why you keep changing things that nobody complained about? Libreoffice version is 7.6.1. Steps to Reproduce: 1. Create more than one sheet. 2. Change the direction of a sheet to rtl. 3. Notice the names of the sheets are dispalyed from left to right Actual Results: the names of the sheets are dispalyed from left to right Expected Results: the names of the sheets should be dispalyed from right to left Reproducible: Always User Profile Reset: No Additional Info: this wasn't in previous versions
Looks like a duplicate of tdf#100585
The problem appears only for rtl sheets. where the names of the sheets were previously ordred from right to left, but now they are ordered from left to right, which is very annoying. Try create more than one sheet and change the direction of one of them to rtl.
I bibisected the change with linux-64-7.6 to be86c8f2432623fdb8ed4f22ca08c35121fd8bec, but according to the discussion in bug 100584 this is working as intended now. Eike's advice in bug 100584 comment 12 was: "Regarding a sheet as a part of document content, I don't see a reason why the UI sheet tab bar should switch to RTL just because one of the sheets is RTL. I'd do it only if all are RTL, if at all."
First of all, I don't think anyone complained about switching the direction of sheet names to rtl when a sheet is rtl. And logically, someone who change the sheet to rtl will have rtl mindset, and prefer to see the names of the sheets as rtl. Please change it back as it was. regards,
(In reply to Mahmoud Alnaanah from comment #4) > First of all, I don't think anyone complained about switching the direction > of sheet names to rtl when a sheet is rtl. And logically, someone who change > the sheet to rtl will have rtl mindset, and prefer to see the names of the > sheets as rtl. > > Please change it back as it was. From comment 4, I think the report is not clear, or it is not understood clearly enough. @Mahmoud Alnaanah, Are we talking about the location of the tabs (where the worksheet names are displayed)? Are we talking about the text direction within the worksheet name tab? Please open LibreOffice > Calc > menu Help > About, and click the icon to copy the version information; then paste that info in your next comment in the bug report page. It would also be helpful to know in which version the behavior changed for you, and other details of your system such as OS, DE... Perhaps you could add an attachment of a screenshot?
Created attachment 190476 [details] Screenshot that describe the problem
According to attachment 190476 [details], this report is not about the text direction of the name of the worksheet, and it is also not about the order of the worksheet tabs (tdf#100585). IIUC, this report is about the general location of the worksheet (name) tab(s) within the UI, shown usually aligned to the left on a LTR UI (and aligned to the right of the UI on RTL UI). Each worksheet tab location is changed when its respective worksheet is set to be RTL, then aligned to the right of the UI. AFAICR, this has been the behavior since LO 3.3 on LTR UI, so it is still not clear the "Please change it back as it was" phrase on comment 4, because we don't know to which version the reporter is referring. I have not tested this on RTL UI (on older versions). We may need an additional screenshot showing the behavior "as it was before" (according to the reporter), so as to make the problem clear and repeatable. Whichever the case, probably the switch from left to right alignment of the worksheet (name) tab is not always desirable. Since it has been the behavior for such a long time, changing it now could be either desirable or unwanted, depending on users' workflow. So this has to be considered, for example in tdf#157961.
I think I made it clear that this report is about the order not the position, I didn't even mention the position. Again, the problem is with the order of the name taps. It was from right to left in a rtl page, now it is from left to right in rtl sheet, and it is counterintuitive and annoying. Also, keeping changing stuff that are not a problem instead of focusing on solving the real problem in libreoffice is another problem. I think libreoffice developers should focus on compatibility issues and fixing bugs instead of missing with things that users are used to. Best regards,
Thank you for the report. I bibisected the change to: commit be86c8f2432623fdb8ed4f22ca08c35121fd8bec author Andreas Heinisch Thu Jan 19 08:56:04 2023 +0100 committer Andreas Heinisch Tue Jan 24 08:04:02 2023 +0000 tdf#100584 - Arrange sheets in the tab bar depending on the RTL settings Reviewed-on: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/145765 The change was made on purpose, but I'm not sur I understand what it is supposed to fix. Andreas, bug 100584 was originally about if newly added sheet should have gain the RTL layout if the first sheet has it (or if it should depend on the UI setting instead). Later on, Heiko started talking about an issue in order in bug 100584 comment 9 (namely "new sheets added after current sheet should be displayed to the left of the current RTL sheet"), but I can't reproduce the issue he describes, and your patch seems to do the opposite of what your bug 100584 comment 11 describes. In my tests, adding new sheets after the existing sheet displays them: - to the left before your commit (correct) - to the right after your commit (wrong) I'll reopen the corresponding bug, we can clarify it there.
Stéphane: see my comment 3
Back to unconfirmed pending decision
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #10) > Stéphane: see my comment 3 Sorry, I managed to completely miss that one...
Apologies, I have misunderstood this and did not test enough. Even though I change the direction of all sheets to RTL, they appear as 1, 2 and 3 instead of 3, 2, 1 as would be expected. I don't know what the idea with the commit was.
I believe the behavior should be reverted as before and the user experience should not be broken for no or little reasons. The original behavior is for rtl sheets the direction of name taps order is from right to left. Please don't give people more reasons to use older versions because of the unnecessary changes in the new ones. Regards,
Don't remember the previous state but adding a second sheet makes it RTL if Tools > Options > Language: Locale is set to an RTL language. If the locale is LTR (English for example) it will be LTR regardless the direction of the first sheet. Mahmoud, why do you run the application with this particular settings?
After reading bug 157961 I think the position of tabs should not follow the locale but the UI language. Which means regardless of a sheet being LTR or RTL all tabs would be located at left or right depending on the UI language. My take: close this ticket as NAB, and bug 100584 and follow Eyal's suggestion.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #16) > After reading bug 157961 I think the position of tabs should not follow the > locale but the UI language. Which means regardless of a sheet being LTR or > RTL all tabs would be located at left or right depending on the UI language. > My take: close this ticket as NAB, and bug 100584 and follow Eyal's > suggestion. But from OP, this ticket is not about the sheet controls' position (left or right of the window), it's about the order of the tabs (LTR or RTL). Regardless of the position, the order changed in 7.6. Or do you mean "position" as including both order and side? In any case, probably better to figure it all out in one single ticket and agree on a complete solution at a design meeting that Eyal can join.
If we bind the tab position and order to the UI language all questions should be solved. It would look like LTR: Sheet 1 | Sheet 2 ---> RTL: ---> Sheet 2 | Sheet 1 and not jump depending on Sheet > RTL is toggled on/off.
Correct, I will provide a patch.
Please make it as it was before 7.6. For example my app UI is in english, and still I need the order of sheet tabs to follow the sheet direction. Also, this will not break user experience. So please, just revert it as it was before 7.6. I had to downgrade my libreoffice version to avoid this problem. Regards,
Andreas Heinisch committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/4f1b3c16f5530a2a190cab07c07c7bf63acf42c7 tdf#100584, tdf#157784 - Arrange sheets depending on the RTL settings It will be available in 24.2.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
The tab bar's position is now globally determined based on the RTL settings, rather than being individually set for each sheet.
Andreas Heinisch committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "libreoffice-7-6": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/7a062cdd9b91c577b2296bfe1f81ea78e0b75168 tdf#100584, tdf#157784 - Arrange sheets depending on the RTL settings It will be available in 7.6.3. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
May I ask where exactly is rtl settings in the application. Also does rtl settings mean the interface language, because I might have ltr language interface yet I need the direcition of name taps to be from right to left. Regards,
(In reply to Mahmoud Alnaanah from comment #24) > May I ask where exactly is rtl settings in the application. Tools > Options > Language Settings > Default Language for New Documents: +CTL Sheet > [ ] Right-to-Left
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #25) > (In reply to Mahmoud Alnaanah from comment #24) > > May I ask where exactly is rtl settings in the application. > Tools > Options > Language Settings > Default Language for New Documents: > +CTL > Sheet > [ ] Right-to-Left Andreas's patch does nothing related to setting a sheet as RTL. It is only checking for RTL UI, which is not enough for Mahmoud. RTL UI can be used even with non-RTL languages by launching with SAL_RTL_ENABLED=1 /path/to/libreoffice On Windows, you use SET SAL_RTL_ENABLED=1 /path/to/libreoffice
I tried 7.6.3, now sheet tabs are positioned and ordered based on the UI language. Using SAL_RTL_ENABLED=1 environment variable will flip the whole UI without changing the language and it is not a suitable solution. For me I prefer making sheet tabs position and order follow the direction of the sheet, this is more intuitive and does not break user experience. Another solution is to put an option in the settings to make sheet tabs position and order either follow sheet direction or UI language. I hope you consider it. Best regards,
(In reply to Mahmoud Alnaanah from comment #27) > For me I prefer making sheet tabs position and order follow the direction of > the sheet, this is more intuitive > and does not break user experience. Users (including myself...) have complained about the existing experience. If you are working mostly with RTL content in an RTL language - have you considered switching to the LibreOffice UI for that language. The two problems with switching the positioning of the sheet tabs area: 1. in mixed-sheet-direction cases, the sheet tabs jump from one end to another as you switch sheets. 2. It gets users to develop potentially conflicting expectations about different aspects of the sheet tab UI behavior, e.g. order of sheets, Home/End key behavior etc. And answer me this: Why just the sheet tabs? We could also switch: * The position of the sidebar relative to the sheet. * The direction of the cell contents entry row, so that the buttons are on the right rather than the left etc. other than the custom of previous LO versions, what, in terms of the relevant UI metaphors, justifies making the sheet tabs area direction depend on the sheet direction? > Another solution is to put an option in the settings to make sheet tabs > position and order either follow sheet direction or UI language. Well, I can't deny that we do have at least some bit of direction-switching UI: The row numbers column, appearing just before column A, which switches direction. So... I would not oppose this, if developers are willing to implement it; but I would need a bit of convincing that this is not just nostalgia for the old behavior.
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #28) I think Libreoffice has a problem of keeping missing with user experience for no good reason. The user's familiarity for certian flow of work should be respected, unless there are major complains about it. I will give you some examples. * Some major icons in the toolbar of draw was removed in a previous release, but they put it back. * In the latest release of calc, if you have auto filter and you want to get to standard filter have to use extra menu which was not there. * The change of sheets name taps direction. So with every new release I get frustrated with annoying changes, that make things harder. So I suppose that all problems and bugs are solved, so all they have to do is changing things. In short, I believe that Libreoffice developers should focus in solving compatablity problems and fixing bugs, not missing with user experience that does not impose real problem. Regards.
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #28) > Well, I can't deny that we do have at least some bit of direction-switching > UI: The row numbers column, appearing just before column A, which switches > direction. That is no longer the behavior since the commit in comment 21 (and this part of the change is a UX problem IMO). See also bug 157784 comment 6.
(In reply to ady from comment #30) > (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #28) > > > Well, I can't deny that we do have at least some bit of direction-switching > > UI: The row numbers column, appearing just before column A, which switches > > direction. > > That is no longer the behavior since the commit in comment 21 (and this part > of the change is a UX problem IMO). See also bug 157784 comment 6. The intention of that last sentence was actually bug 157961 comment 6.
I found an additional serious problem in the new approach, which is the row number is now on the left side (for English UI) even if the sheet direction is rtl. This is more frustrating than sheet tabs direction. So please, use the previous (and more intuitive) approach, where row number and sheet tabs direction follow the direction of the sheet. Or at least put it as option. I have to use two versions of LibreOffice to cope with the annoying bugs and design choices, and I realy don't want to change the UI of the app. Regards
(In reply to Mahmoud Alnaanah from comment #32) > I found an additional serious problem in the new approach, which is the row > number is now on the left side (for English UI) even if the sheet direction > is rtl. This is more frustrating than sheet tabs direction. That is a separate issue than this bug is about.
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #33) > (In reply to Mahmoud Alnaanah from comment #32) > > I found an additional serious problem in the new approach, which is the row > > number is now on the left side (for English UI) even if the sheet direction > > is rtl. This is more frustrating than sheet tabs direction. > > That is a separate issue than this bug is about. On contrary, I believe they stem from the same app behavior modification and I am really getting tired of ignoring my complaint. Also, I believe that Libreoffice is one of the reasons why people having trouble converting to Linux because of its compatibility problems, bugs, and messing with UI with each new release. Regards.
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #33) > (In reply to Mahmoud Alnaanah from comment #32) > > I found an additional serious problem in the new approach, which is the row > > number is now on the left side (for English UI) even if the sheet direction > > is rtl. This is more frustrating than sheet tabs direction. > > That is a separate issue than this bug is about. @Eyal, I disagree. While this report itself is about the tabs, the change to the behavior of the rows' headers is part of the change introduced in Andreas' commit for this bug report. In bug 157961 comment 1 I commented about older or advance users disliking (this sort of) changes after so many years, even when the changes might make sense. The changes have to be evaluated as a whole (not just in terms of one particular report); please see bug 157961 comment 6 too.
(In reply to ady from comment #35) > (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #33) > > (In reply to Mahmoud Alnaanah from comment #32) > > > I found an additional serious problem in the new approach, which is the row > > > number is now on the left side (for English UI) even if the sheet direction > > > is rtl. This is more frustrating than sheet tabs direction. > > > > That is a separate issue than this bug is about. > > @Eyal, I disagree. While this report itself is about the tabs, the change to > the behavior of the rows' headers is part of the change introduced in > Andreas' commit for this bug report. In bug 157961 comment 1 I commented > about older or advance users disliking (this sort of) changes after so many > years, even when the changes might make sense. The changes have to be > evaluated as a whole (not just in terms of one particular report); please > see bug 157961 comment 6 too. Thank you Ady, for agreeing with me on the apparent problem, especially considering that users are accustomed to the previous UI behavior. Given that the change is recent, I anticipate more users will feel frustrated once they encounter it
Created attachment 191237 [details] Large distance between the row and its number
Comment on attachment 191237 [details] Large distance between the row and its number The problem is more series than you think, and it seems that user complains are ignored for no good reason, which is by itself antoher problem. Please comment if at least the position of row number will be fixed to follow page direction. As you can see in the picture below, you there is a huge distance between the first column and the row number, which makes it very hard to know the number of the row. Please tell me that you see the problem and want to fix it. regards
(In reply to Mahmoud Alnaanah from comment #38) > Comment on attachment 191237 [details] > Large distance between the row and its number > > The problem is more series than you think, and it seems that user complains > are ignored for no good reason, which is by itself antoher problem. > Please comment if at least the position of row number will be fixed to > follow page direction. As you can see in the picture below, you there is a > huge distance between the first column and the row number, which makes it > very hard to know the number of the row. > > Please tell me that you see the problem and want to fix it. It has been solved in 24.2, see tdf#33201
(In reply to m.a.riosv from comment #39) > It has been solved in 24.2, see tdf#33201 It's true that the new highlight feature for bug 33201 would help here, but I agree with Mahmoud that the row headers moved to the left make for a poorer experience for RTL sheets, which feels like a regression. But that's something for a separate report.
(In reply to Stéphane Guillou (stragu) from comment #40) > (In reply to m.a.riosv from comment #39) > > It has been solved in 24.2, see tdf#33201 tdf#33201 is not _solving_ the situation of RTL users. At most, it might help in some cases (and it might be worse for other users). If column A is on the right, that's the area where the row headers should be. Rows and column headers should cross somewhere, just as 2 axis cross in X/Y coordinates. Users should not have to look at (and think of) 2 different places in the UI for the "zero". > It's true that the new highlight feature for bug 33201 would help here, but > I agree with Mahmoud that the row headers moved to the left make for a > poorer experience for RTL sheets, which feels like a regression. > But that's something for a separate report. The UI for RTL users (whether it is about UI languages, text direction, or worksheets, or combination of RTL and LTR) should not be treated just by individual parts, but as a whole. It would reduce the current many UX problems on such scenarios. That's why I mentioned bug 157961 comment 6 more than once here.
Andreas Heinisch committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/19e856aa1ade6686fa495e57386b81cabae47495 Revert "tdf#100584, tdf#157784 - Arrange sheets depending on the RTL settings" It will be available in 24.8.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Fix for tdf#100584 has been reverted. Should be the same now as before the patch.
Andreas Heinisch committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "libreoffice-24-2": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/a735f64391b5c194b38cacb577f14ef60556bcbc Revert "tdf#100584, tdf#157784 - Arrange sheets depending on the RTL settings" It will be available in 24.2.0.2. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Andreas Heinisch committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "libreoffice-7-6": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/c4c079d3a72999c7b9cf740f86db9fddaac71ea3 Revert "tdf#100584, tdf#157784 - Arrange sheets depending on the RTL settings" It will be available in 7.6.5. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.