Bug 164393 - New Options -> Appearance LO Theme panel unable to review the list box of 'Customization' items when in 'Automatic' theme
Summary: New Options -> Appearance LO Theme panel unable to review the list box of 'Cu...
Status: UNCONFIRMED
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: UI (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
25.2.0.0 alpha0+
Hardware: All All
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: needsUXEval
Depends on:
Blocks: UI-Theming LibreOffice-Themes
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2024-12-20 15:03 UTC by V Stuart Foote
Modified: 2024-12-21 19:26 UTC (History)
4 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
new layout for cusotmizations section (32.17 KB, image/png)
2024-12-21 18:34 UTC, Sahil Gautam
Details
"Restore Defaults" button above items (22.20 KB, image/png)
2024-12-21 19:00 UTC, Sahil Gautam
Details

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Description V Stuart Foote 2024-12-20 15:03:15 UTC
The new Appearance LO Theme panel does not enable user to review the full list box of 'Customization' Item entries when no theme has been set active and the Theme lb shows Automatic.

Should not have to create a new LO Theme just to be able to review the color assignments ("Automatic" or specific color swatch/tag from os/DE system theme).
Comment 1 Heiko Tietze 2024-12-21 09:39:48 UTC
By design. Changing the automatic colors is pointless. OTOH, since we can now revert any color to Automatic it could make sense to rename the theme to Default, or the like, and allow changes. Would be nice to have the Revert All function first.
Comment 2 V Stuart Foote 2024-12-21 11:39:54 UTC
Concern is not that value can't be changed, rather that you can not examine the elements in the listbox!  

And currently the Automatic (or reasonable rename to Defaults) is *not* restoring the element values on the listbox--but as they can't be seen you can't tell.

Logic for setting an elements color back to "default" as theme is removed, or toggle between system|dark|light radio button without a theme needs adjustment (see also bug 164392) to correctly reset appropriate "automatic" colors drawn from os/DE.
Comment 3 Sahil Gautam 2024-12-21 17:11:01 UTC
We disabled customizations for Automatic theme for the following reason.

- Let's say that the customization section is enabled, and the user changes a lot of colors (including the UI colors). Now to see those colors in effect, the user has to restart the application (no alternative to restart found yet).

- Now after restart, the user found that the UI is messed up (because he changed the colors). Now he wants to reset the colors back to the default values. The only  way to do this is to go through the dropdown and individually change the values for the colors to automatic.

- One might say that the reset button should do that. The reset button is used for throwing away changes which have not been committed yet, so that cannot be used to set all values to Automatic.

- And if we add another button anywhere else in the UI, it would look super ugly. That's why I (and Heiko) agreed on disabling cusotmizations for Automatic theme.

- One Potential solution I can think of is to not show the UI color entries in the customizations dropdown. That way the user wouldn't be able to shoot himeself in the foot. Then for any other scheme, we add those entries. (Opinions on this?)
Comment 4 V Stuart Foote 2024-12-21 17:50:54 UTC
I'm happy with the Theme model. But *not* having the Customization listbox for the UI elements active just unpleasantly sidesteps the case that no Theme has been applied, right?

So absent an active Theme, my expectation would be that if we use the 'System' radio button (os/DE in Dark or Light color mode) the full slate of os/DE colors should be restored (and/or shifted to appropriate 'Automatic' contrast) at least for the System rb.

Simply not allowing review of the listing UI elements is not a comfortable state--if not restoring it to function, then a warning message to user of need to define and apply a Theme might be sufficient.

But really think restoring the listing of UI elements even to adjust just a single element, after restoration from os/DE values, would be more comfortable work flow than forcing each user to define their own theme.

Especially as we need to get better guidance/help into user hands about complexity of what they now need to define in their Appearance themes (e.g. assigning a full slate of element values for both a Light and a Dark color mode, etc.).
Comment 5 Sahil Gautam 2024-12-21 18:21:10 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #4)
> I'm happy with the Theme model. But *not* having the Customization listbox
> for the UI elements active just unpleasantly sidesteps the case that no
> Theme has been applied, right?

Even worst the UI doesn't give any hints about what's going on, as said below very bad UX.


> So absent an active Theme, my expectation would be that if we use the
> 'System' radio button (os/DE in Dark or Light color mode) the full slate of
> os/DE colors should be restored (and/or shifted to appropriate 'Automatic'
> contrast) at least for the System rb.

The system radio button is for following the system's "appearance mode", and it happens many times that the system uses light theme during the day and dark theme during the night. Let's say we use system to restore the system colors, then what if the user is not using Automatic theme? Would we still restore system colors then? If so then the theme would be overwritten with system colors.

I don't think system rb can be used for that purpose.

> Simply not allowing review of the listing UI elements is not a comfortable
> state

I agree on that. That makes it more complex and we have to use a lot of ifs and buts to explain the feature. It's bad UX for sure as the user has to go out to the blog/help/internet to figure out the whole deal.

We need a slight UI redesign, please wait a moment, I will share a new UI
Comment 6 Sahil Gautam 2024-12-21 18:34:56 UTC
Created attachment 198219 [details]
new layout for cusotmizations section

How about this? The reset button label here would be "Restore Defaults" and that would throw away all the customizations and get colors from the system. We would show the "Restore Defaults" button only for the automatic theme.
Comment 7 V Stuart Foote 2024-12-21 18:46:12 UTC
(In reply to Sahil Gautam from comment #6)
> Created attachment 198219 [details]
> new layout for cusotmizations section
> 
> How about this? The reset button label here would be "Restore Defaults" and
> that would throw away all the customizations and get colors from the system.
> We would show the "Restore Defaults" button only for the automatic theme.

Yes something like that, but if it was going to reset all UI elements, and not just the "Document background" element, then reset button placement might be more clear if positioned above the still inside the Customizations label, but above the Items: for the listbox?

Also, with quick turn-around needed here at 25.2 I'm including the entire UX-advise list members.
Comment 8 V Stuart Foote 2024-12-21 18:49:40 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #7)
> Yes something like that, but if it was going to reset all UI elements, and
> not just the "Document background" element, then reset button placement
> might be more clear if positioned above the still inside the Customizations
> label, but above the Items: for the listbox?

oops, finger flub...

s/if positioned above the/if/

so make that read "more clear if still inside the Customizations label,"
Comment 9 Sahil Gautam 2024-12-21 19:00:19 UTC
Created attachment 198222 [details]
"Restore Defaults" button above items

Then the UI would look something like this.
Comment 10 V Stuart Foote 2024-12-21 19:14:02 UTC
(In reply to Sahil Gautam from comment #9)
> Created attachment 198222 [details]
> "Restore Defaults" button above items
> 
> Then the UI would look something like this.

Right, that UI. But then do you have what you'd need under the hood to reread from os/DE and "regenerate" the full slate of automatic colors to perform the reset?
Comment 11 Sahil Gautam 2024-12-21 19:26:27 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #10)
> Right, that UI. But then do you have what you'd need under the hood to
> reread from os/DE and "regenerate" the full slate of automatic colors to
> perform the reset?

Yes, We do. If you use lime theme, and then (after restart) set the color for window to automatic using the automatic button on the color palette/dropdown, then (after restart) you would see that the window color has changed to the desktop environment's window color.