Bug 32362 - Bad behavior of scalable brackets with large objects (comment 18)
Bad behavior of scalable brackets with large objects (comment 18)
 Status: NEW None LibreOffice Unclassified Formula Editor (show other bugs) Inherited From OOo All All medium normal Not Assigned difficultyInteresting, needsDevEval, skillCpp (view as bug list) 101174 hb_ot_math 111700 Formula-Editor Show dependency tree / graph

 Reported: 2010-12-13 14:37 UTC by RGB 2018-11-20 14:28 UTC (History) 13 users (show) 79045_79045 christopher.m.penalver dr.khaled.hosny fred.wang jag jbfaure jmadero.dev LibreOffice mikekaganski peter qubit rb.henschel vstuart.foote

Attachments
Example of bad behavior for scalable brackets (15.86 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2010-12-13 14:37 UTC, RGB
Details
updated example of bad bracket behaviour (45.59 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2011-11-28 23:18 UTC, Forest Johnson
Details
Image showing how bracket characters need to be mutated (34.89 KB, image/jpeg)
2011-11-28 23:21 UTC, Forest Johnson
Details
Example of scalable brackets (30.04 KB, application/pdf)
2015-06-25 08:48 UTC, Peter Nicol
Details
Comparision between version 2015_08_04 and 2015_08_12 (15.33 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2016-01-13 21:06 UTC, Regina Henschel
Details

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 RGB 2010-12-13 14:37:49 UTC Created attachment 41094 [details] Example of bad behavior for scalable brackets As shown on attached document (which includes a Math object and a screenshot with the problem highlighted), if you use scalable brackets for a big object like a matrix, they became more and more "bold", something should not happen. Rainer Bielefeld Retired 2010-12-14 01:13:42 UTC [Reproducible] with "brackets.odt" and "LibreOffice 3.3.0 RC1 - WIN XP German UI [OOO330m17 (build 3.3.0.1" Also visible with sample document and OOo 3.1.1, OOo 3.4.-dev Jean-Baptiste Faure 2010-12-18 10:57:09 UTC Old known bug in OOo : http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=66848 Best regards. JBF rfvuhbtg 2011-08-03 08:06:05 UTC A workaround is to make the scalable brackets as usual, then make two more brackets (left and right) by themselves--two additional math objects, then use the Position and Size window to scale these up to the proper size, then position them on top of the bad brackets and use the align tool to make sure the good brackets and the math formula are properly aligned vertically. But it seems like LibreOffice should be smart enough to properly scale the brackets by itself. How does LaTeX do things like that? Would its techniques in any way be transferable to LibreOffice? rfvuhbtg 2011-08-16 15:41:00 UTC Turns out the workaround I proposed is only possible in Impress. In Writer, it is impossible to have two math objects overlap. So, can anyone do something about this? Kinda makes LibreOffice a non-starter when it comes to putting math formulas in documents. Rainer Bielefeld Retired 2011-08-23 23:21:09 UTC @rfvuhbtg  Rainer Bielefeld Retired 2011-09-18 22:16:51 UTC *** Bug 40998 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** peter 2011-10-24 15:17:59 UTC Hi there - I need this bug fixed or I'll have export my thesis to word. Is there any system at libreoffice whereby I can put a bounty on this bug (say \$100) and have someone else (like an admin or something) determine when its fixed, who fixed it and award the money accordingly? Thanks, peter. rfvuhbtg 2011-11-11 07:31:11 UTC I'd just like to add that the problem shows up for parentheses and braces as well as brackets. I hope the developers get this bug fixed soon. I've had to switch away from LibreOffice until this is fixed. This bug truly makes LibreOffice a non-starter for any kind of technical/scientific document or presentation--and those are the types of users who would tend to be most inclined to use LibreOffice over proprietary competitors as long as the quality is comparable. peter 2011-11-20 19:23:54 UTC Sorry, I have to retract the offer above as I am now slowly converting my thesis to word. I agree with rfvuhbtg above - the most likely professional users of libreoffice are people who are likely to use this functionality. Because of this bug, we can't use libreoffice to produce professional looking work. Jean-Baptiste Faure 2011-11-20 21:05:27 UTC *** Bug 42812 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** Jean-Baptiste Faure 2011-11-20 21:10:17 UTC @Peter: please have a look at TexMathts extension (http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/texmaths-1) Best regards. JBF peter 2011-11-20 22:03:04 UTC @Jean-Baptiste Faure - thanks very much for this. I'll have to redo my diagrams, but at least I get to keep using libreoffice :) Forest Johnson 2011-11-28 23:18:48 UTC Created attachment 53928 [details] updated example of bad bracket behaviour I made a new example document that shows more problems with the brackets. Right now there are two kinds of brackets. Normal and Scalable. Normal Brackets just draw the Unicode character normally. It scales in the same way all the other characters scale and lines up just like a normal characer. Scalable Brackets do something else. I am not sure what. They scale linearly to be the same hight as the object they inclose. They are not just normal brackets that get stretched up and down. they look different from the normal brackets even when the object they enclose is one character tall. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fixing this _The Right Way_ is NOT an easy hack !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would require actual mutations of the vector (bezier) curves inside the bracket characters that are drawn. Or a custom implementation of the bracket characters. If this was done properly there would be only one kind of bracket, which would make them easier to use and fit the sort of "just works" standard that we all aspire to have in our software. There isn't a solution that looks good and ONLY involves scaling. Assuming that the bracket characters don't have a lot of unnessecary bezier curve endpoints along thier curves, the solution is to: 1. design a system so that arbitrary offsets can be applied to the positions of arbitrary curve endpoints. A demo of this system would be a character that fits inline and looks just like other characters, but can have a sine wave distortion applied to the positions of its curve endpoints so that it wobbles like a skrillex song. 2. design a new scaling system based on the previous step. The character is placed in front of the object to inclose, and looks just like how the Normal brackets look now. Then, the curve endpoints that lie in the top third of the character are moved until thier top edge lines up with the top edge of the object to be enclosed, and the bottom third moved down in a similar fasion. It is possible that this would produce bad curves on something like the curly brace, but in theory the curve tangents could be adjusted algorithmically based on the distance that the endpoints were moved, to compensate. Forest Johnson 2011-11-28 23:21:15 UTC Created attachment 53929 [details] Image showing how bracket characters need to be mutated Björn Michaelsen 2011-12-23 11:35:36 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete) [This is an automated message.] This bug was filed before the changes to Bugzilla on 2011-10-16. Thus it started right out as NEW without ever being explicitly confirmed. The bug is changed to state NEEDINFO for this reason. To move this bug from NEEDINFO back to NEW please check if the bug still persists with the 3.5.0 beta1 or beta2 prereleases. Details on how to test the 3.5.0 beta1 can be found at: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugHunting_Session_3.5.0.-1 more detail on this bulk operation: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/RFC-Operation-Spamzilla-tp3607474p3607474.html RGB 2011-12-23 16:51:54 UTC The problem is present on 3.5 beta2. Rainer Bielefeld Retired 2011-12-31 00:10:03 UTC @András: Please feel free to reassign (or reset Assignee to default) if it’s not your area or if provided information is not sufficient. Please set Status to ASSIGNED if you accept this Bug. Frédéric Wang 2013-06-23 19:19:57 UTC The right way to fix this bug is to use several glyphs to draw the brace e.g. one glyph for the top, one for the middle and one for the bottom. The rest of the brace are two vertical lines that can easily be extended to arbitrary size (e.g. by repeating a glyph for vertical bar or drawing a line). In general, you need to use some specific mathematical fonts that contain the glyphs for the most important stretchy operators e.g. the STIX fonts. There have been discussion on the LibreOffice mailing list about using STIX fonts as well as supporting the Open Type Math table (here, at least the stretchy variants/constructions would help). CC'ing Khaled Hosny. Khaled Hosny 2013-06-23 23:11:12 UTC I had a cursory look at Math while ago, and my impression is that it is a hopeless case, it has to be rewritten from scratch (at least the math renderer) if any sane math rendering is to be achieved. peter 2013-06-24 01:18:03 UTC A year or two ago I asked about this bug because I needed it fixed for my thesis. Someone suggested using the TexMaths Equations editor instead (it embeds LaTeX into LibreOffice). This worked perfectly and saved me from having to convert my work to word. Is there any way we could just use this instead? It properly scales brackets with large objects. I'd recommend it, because I think this bug is about a decade old. Frédéric Wang 2013-06-24 06:29:00 UTC Thanks for the replies. I have to say that I studied LibreOffice Math after some reports from MathJax users about issues with mathematical formulas. So I'm mainly concerned about getting a good MathML export at the moment so that LibreOffice users can publish their content on the Web. (Of course, I also realize it is important to have an open-source office productivity software suite with good math rendering but that's not my personal priority). I've just posted some thoughts on what could be done in the future: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2013-June/053727.html Joel Madero 2014-02-27 23:17:56 UTC In order to limit the confusion between ProposedEasyHack and EasyHack and to make queries much easier we are changing ProposedEasyHack to NeedsDevEval. Thank you and apologies for the noise Jean-Baptiste Faure 2014-06-09 17:12:27 UTC Changed version to Inherited from OOo due to comment #2. Best regards. JBF QA Administrators 2014-10-23 17:32:22 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete) Please read this message in its entirety before responding. Your bug was confirmed at least 1 year ago and has not had any activity on it for over a year. Your bug is still set to NEW which means that it is open and confirmed. It would be nice to have the bug confirmed on a newer version than the version reported in the original report to know that the bug is still present -- sometimes a bug is inadvertently fixed over time and just never closed. If you have time please do the following: 1) Test to see if the bug is still present on a currently supported version of LibreOffice (preferably 4.2 or newer). 2) If it is present please leave a comment telling us what version of LibreOffice and your operating system. 3) If it is NOT present please set the bug to RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a short comment telling us your version and Operating System Please DO NOT 1) Update the version field 2) Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker) 3) Set the bug to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular meaning that is not appropriate in this case) + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + LibreOffice is powered by a team of volunteers, every bug is confirmed (triaged) by human beings who mostly give their time for free. We invite you to join our triaging by checking out this link: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugTriage There are also other ways to get involved including with marketing, UX, documentation, and of course developing - http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/. Lastly, good bug reports help tremendously in making the process go smoother, please always provide reproducible steps (even if it seems easy) and attach any and all relevant material Christopher M. Penalver 2014-10-23 23:45:46 UTC Reproducibe in MASTER: Version: 4.4.0.0.alpha1+ Build ID: a6b01d01f77f84517d267bdfe31de91b9050a70c TinderBox: Win-x86@39, Branch:master, Time: 2014-10-23_07:22:13 peter 2014-10-24 00:08:20 UTC Reproducible on Version: 4.2.3.3, OS X (I tested it using the sample document above). Reading the comments above, it is clear this bug is not going to magically go away without a substantial rewrite. Peter Nicol 2015-06-25 08:48:48 UTC Created attachment 116818 [details] Example of scalable brackets Bug still present in 4.3.7.2 (but not in previous version) Input: left(5 over x right) Wolfgang Jäger 2015-10-28 16:02:04 UTC The bug is still present in Version 5.0.2. There is a recent thread in ask.libreoffice concerning the issue: https://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/60133/how-to-get-better-scalable-bracket/ It is containing a new offer of inducement. Robinson Tryon (qubit) 2015-12-14 06:12:23 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete) Migrating Whiteboard tags to Keywords: (needsDevEval difficultyInteresting skillCpp) [NinjaEdit] Regina Henschel 2016-01-13 21:06:05 UTC Created attachment 121908 [details] Comparision between version 2015_08_04 and 2015_08_12 It is not the old bug, but a newly introduced regression The rendering is OK till Version: 5.1.0.0.alpha1+ Build ID: a933e01a54f08132c2d8699f7c6851a8b493d5dc TinderBox: Win-x86@39, Branch:master, Time: 2015-08-04_06:10:12 Locale: de-DE (de_DE) The rendering is bad since Version: 5.1.0.0.alpha1+ Build ID: c614e711136205252ac2c72f9772c718dafc471e TinderBox: Win-x86@62-merge-TDF, Branch:MASTER, Time: 2015-08-12_20:36:06 Locale: de-DE (de_DE) Joel Madero 2016-01-13 21:07:13 UTC If it's the same issue then we should mark as regression, request a bibisect, and update the version field....else new bug is appropriate Regina Henschel 2016-01-13 21:28:08 UTC It was correct in-between, so it is not the old bug. I have written a new report bug 97111. Volga 2016-11-24 03:17:44 UTC Since LibreOffice have intergrated HarfBuzz, this can be resolved via using ot-math APIs (bug 103680). Volga 2016-11-29 08:36:43 UTC Also, you can try to combine some Miscellaneous Technical characters together to get expected output. See: https://graphemica.com/blocks/miscellaneous-technical/page/3 Frédéric Wang 2016-11-29 08:43:03 UTC (In reply to Volga from comment #34) > Also, you can try to combine some Miscellaneous Technical characters > together to get expected output. > See: https://graphemica.com/blocks/miscellaneous-technical/page/3 Note that these constructions should already be integrated into the MathVariant subtable of the OpenType MATH table accessible via the new HarfBuzz API. Volga 2016-12-03 03:39:58 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete) (In reply to Frédéric Wang from comment #35) > Note that these constructions should already be integrated into the > MathVariant subtable of the OpenType MATH table accessible via the new > HarfBuzz API. Wow, it seems to me we can get sulotion for this bug. Volga 2017-01-08 21:01:34 UTC (In reply to Frédéric Wang from comment #35) > Note that these constructions should already be integrated into the > MathVariant subtable of the OpenType MATH table accessible via the new > HarfBuzz API. Wow, it seems to me we can get an all-in-one solution for this bug. Volga 2017-08-11 18:25:50 UTC With attachment 53928 [details] the squared brackts [] still bad scaled in LO 5.4.0, they looks the same as embedded screenshot. Version: 5.4.0.3 (x64) Build ID：7556cbc6811c9d992f4064ab9287069087d7f62c CPU 线程：4; 操作系统：Windows 6.19; UI 渲染：默认; Locale: zh-CN (zh_CN); Calc: CL Additionaly, LO Math does not allow to set font face for symbols, so we have no way to use several fonts as Asana Math, Cambria Math, XITS etc. to test and judge whether LO can make use of OT MATH extension to present scaled such objects. QA Administrators 2018-08-12 02:35:25 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete) ** Please read this message in its entirety before responding ** To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today, LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed bugs which have not been touched for over a year. There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in getting confirmation that the bug is still present. If you have time, please do the following: Test to see if the bug is still present with the latest version of LibreOffice from https://www.libreoffice.org/download/ If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the information from Help - About LibreOffice. If the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a comment that includes the information from Help - About LibreOffice. Please DO NOT Update the version field Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker) Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular meaning that is not appropriate in this case) If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a REGRESSION. To do so: 1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your bug pertains to a feature added after 3.3) from http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/ 2. Test your bug 3. Leave a comment with your results. 4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to 'inherited from OOo'; 4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add 'regression' to keyword Feel free to come ask questions or to say hello in our QA chat: https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.freenode.net/#libreoffice-qa Thank you for helping us make LibreOffice even better for everyone! Warm Regards, QA Team MassPing-UntouchedBug RGB 2018-08-12 06:48:44 UTC Problem still present in 6.1.0.3 Roman Kuznetsov 2018-11-20 11:29:43 UTC scalable brackets look fine for me in Версия: 6.2.0.0.beta1 ID сборки: d1b41307be3f8c19fe6f1938cf056e7ff1eb1d18 Потоков ЦП: 4; ОС:Windows 6.1; Отрисовка ИП: по умолчанию; VCL: win; Локаль: ru-RU (ru_RU); UI-Language: ru-RU Calc: threaded people, please retest this in latest dev build 6.2 V Stuart Foote 2018-11-20 14:28:12 UTC (In reply to Roman Kuznetsov from comment #41) > scalable brackets look fine for me in > > Версия: 6.2.0.0.beta1 > ID сборки: d1b41307be3f8c19fe6f1938cf056e7ff1eb1d18 > Потоков ЦП: 4; ОС:Windows 6.1; Отрисовка ИП: по умолчанию; VCL: win; > Локаль: ru-RU (ru_RU); UI-Language: ru-RU > Calc: threaded > > people, please retest this in latest dev build 6.2 No. Attachment 53928 [details] shows scalable brackets still being "stretched" vertically to fit the node. Although precision of glyph scaling for stamping into node frame has improved in Windows builds at 6.2. A proper resolution requires implementation of multi-glyph 3 element (eg. 0x239b-0x23b3) and 2 element (e.g. 0x2320, 0x2321) composition. =-testing-= Windows 10 Home 64-bit en-US (1803) with Version: 6.2.0.0.alpha1+ (x64) Build ID: 525ed5d1fcb89412f0b80be0b1e35410b048c337 CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 10.0; UI render: GL; VCL: win; TinderBox: Win-x86_64@42, Branch:master, Time: 2018-11-15_23:08:09 Locale: en-US (en_US); UI-Language: en-US Calc: threaded