Bug 110436 - Removal of the Master Pages sidebar deck
Summary: Removal of the Master Pages sidebar deck
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Impress (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
unspecified
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
: 104342 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks: Sidebar-Master-Pages
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Reported: 2017-07-30 12:59 UTC by Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired)
Modified: 2020-03-09 13:28 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

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Description Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-07-30 12:59:23 UTC
With the template manager allowing users to select which template they want to use, and the ability to set the master slide of a slide in the Properties deck, there seems to be no use for the Master Pages deck and believe it should be removed.
Comment 1 V Stuart Foote 2017-07-30 14:05:00 UTC
No, IMHO this would not be a good idea. 

The Template Manager is only relevant when starting layout of a presentation. And while themes/master slides from the selected template are available--it is still common to use multiple master pages to consistently format blocks of slides. Slide attributes like background, text font color and alignment, even orientation. Master Pages for slides objects are a corollary to working with Paragraph object styles.

They can be controlled per slide from Properties deck--but for working across a presentation the Master Pages deck remains functional--and is the only way to efficiently author a presentation--or prepare to a template for that matter.

The deck/content panels are still needed.

Trying to pack every needed layout into a template quickly makes the template tedious to use. Defining templates and using Template Manager is a useful workflow, but it does not and can not fully replace Master Pages.
Comment 2 V Stuart Foote 2017-07-30 14:14:57 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #1)

> only way to efficiently author a presentation--or prepare to a template for

s/author a presentation/author a multi-themed presentation/
Comment 3 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-07-30 14:51:22 UTC
Authoring a presentation with master slides from multiple different templates seems illogical to me. It used to make some sense when all the provided templates only had a single master slide (primarily because we broke up templates with multiple masters into separate templates), but doesnt make any sense now when we have templates with multiple master slides in it and the template manager to select the template when you start. Lets not forget that you can even import all the master slides from another template (bug 98423), which makes this deck even less useful.
Comment 4 V Stuart Foote 2017-07-30 15:31:34 UTC
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #3)
> Authoring a presentation with master slides from multiple different
> templates seems illogical to me. It used to make some sense when all the
> provided templates only had a single master slide (primarily because we
> broke up templates with multiple masters into separate templates), but
> doesnt make any sense now when we have templates with multiple master slides
> in it and the template manager to select the template when you start. Lets
> not forget that you can even import all the master slides from another
> template (bug 98423), which makes this deck even less useful.

No, the use case remains common that the template you choose to create a new presentation with does not have the Slide master you want to use predefined. 

What then?  

The Master Page deck allows you to assign the slide a master from another template--still quite functional and there is nothing in UI to replace that.

At the least, work flow for layout of a presentation to then use as a template requires the deck's content pannels. Otherwise every slide master for a new template starts from default.
Comment 5 Roman Kuznetsov 2017-07-30 17:29:44 UTC
Master Pages should will be on sidebar. Don't delete it
Comment 6 tagezi 2017-07-30 17:46:19 UTC
I'm interesting why team of design removes the functionality? Is it not the ability to use LO or the opinion that in LO you only need those functions that Yusuf can and want use?
In general, the trend of removing a functionality is very sad.
Comment 7 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-07-30 21:04:20 UTC
Tagezi: We are having a discussion here, so dont close such bugs.
Comment 8 Heiko Tietze 2017-07-31 07:58:09 UTC
While I'd always vote for cleaning up the UI, and in particular the rarely used sidebar decks, the master slide deck is useful. Removing it forces the user into the template manager (at least me don't like this workflow) and hinders the later modification when users start with content and apply formatting/style to the final document.
Comment 9 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-07-31 11:01:20 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #4)
> No, the use case remains common that the template you choose to create a new
> presentation with does not have the Slide master you want to use predefined. 
> 
> What then?  

You choose another template or you create the slide masters you want.

> The Master Page deck allows you to assign the slide a master from another
> template--still quite functional and there is nothing in UI to replace that.

If it cant import all the slide masters from a template, it isnt that functional.

> At the least, work flow for layout of a presentation to then use as a
> template requires the deck's content pannels. Otherwise every slide master
> for a new template starts from default.

Didnt follow.

(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8)
> While I'd always vote for cleaning up the UI, and in particular the rarely
> used sidebar decks, the master slide deck is useful. Removing it forces the
> user into the template manager (at least me don't like this workflow) and
> hinders the later modification when users start with content and apply
> formatting/style to the final document.

If you dont go through the template manager, you cant import all master slides in a template, so the template manager is the only workflow that provides this functionality. Didnt follow what you meant by the "hinders the later modification...".
Comment 10 Heiko Tietze 2017-07-31 11:46:04 UTC
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #9)
> Didnt follow what you meant by the "hinders the
> later modification...".

If the user wants to start with the content of the presentation and apply the template/master later.
Comment 11 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-07-31 21:28:13 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #10)
> If the user wants to start with the content of the presentation and apply
> the template/master later.

Well this cant be achieved if you cant import all the master slide from a template listed in the master pages deck, so its not a workflow that works. Also, is this a workflow that works in any other presentation app?
Comment 12 Gabor Kelemen 2017-08-02 11:28:56 UTC
It is also useful for quickly applying different master pages to different slides.

Imagine creating several custom master pages for a default template used by a company.

When you create a new slide it inherits the master page setting of the previous slide. How can one switch to the other custom master page?

1) On the Master Pages side bar, under the Used in this Presentation section click on the master page
2) Right click the slide in the left Slides pane, choose the Slide Master Design menu item. In the Slide Design window, double click on the master page you want, or select it and click OK.

Thus the alternatives are: one click vs a local menu and a window to navigate around.

Please keep this feature.
Comment 13 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-08-02 14:38:11 UTC
(In reply to Gabor Kelemen from comment #12)
> When you create a new slide it inherits the master page setting of the
> previous slide. How can one switch to the other custom master page?

You can easily do so with the Master Slide dropdown menu of the Slide content panel of the Properties deck introduced in LO 5.2.

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LO-5.2-Impress-Sidebar-Prop.-Slide.png

> Thus the alternatives are: one click vs a local menu and a window to
> navigate around.

Wouldnt say option 1 was only 'one click', as the Master Pages deck isnt always active in the sidebar when users are creating presentations, so they would first have to click over to the Master Pages deck and then click on a master slide to apply it.
Comment 14 V Stuart Foote 2017-08-02 14:54:56 UTC
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #13)
> (In reply to Gabor Kelemen from comment #12)
> > When you create a new slide it inherits the master page setting of the
> > previous slide. How can one switch to the other custom master page?
> 
> You can easily do so with the Master Slide dropdown menu of the Slide
> content panel of the Properties deck introduced in LO 5.2.
> 
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LO-5.2-Impress-Sidebar-Prop.-Slide.
> png
> 

Only if the Master Slide had been used in the presentation, or is defined in the template it started from. Otherwise the Master Pages tab/deck is still needed while:

1. preparing a new presentation template
or
2. assembling a presentation and drawing from multiple master slide sources
Comment 15 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-08-02 15:27:57 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #14)
> 1. preparing a new presentation template

Can you clarify this. If a user starts with a blank template and choose not to use one of the available default templates, they will create their own master slides.

> 2. assembling a presentation and drawing from multiple master slide sources

You can pull in the first master slide from an available template but not any/all the master slides in a template, which makes this functionality only partially usable, while Slide > Slide Master Design > Load gives you the full functionality of pulling any master slide from any template.
Comment 16 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-08-03 13:01:24 UTC
Another idea i suggested was moving the 'Available in Use' content panel to the Properties deck and rename it 'Templates' and then convert the Properties deck's 'Layouts' content panel into a drop down list in the 'Slide' content panel, so that the Master Pages deck can be removed.

If there is agreement also of this suggestion, then this enhancement can be closed.
Comment 17 Heiko Tietze 2017-08-03 13:21:49 UTC
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #16)
> ... and then convert the Properties deck's 'Layouts' content panel 
> into a drop down list...

No, please keep the thumbnails.
Comment 18 Cor Nouws 2017-08-09 14:12:24 UTC
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #15)
> Can you clarify this. If a user starts with a blank template and choose not
> to use one of the available default templates, they will create their own
> master slides.

*might*
Comment 19 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-09-24 22:48:12 UTC
*** Bug 104342 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 20 Xisco Faulí 2020-03-09 13:28:59 UTC
Please add keyword 'needsUXEval' and CC 'libreoffice-ux-advise@lists.freedesktop.org' if input from UX is needed.