Enhancement / UI development request. The following examples demonstrate the currently implemented LO behavior (using the labels as of 1. Feb 2021), along with explanations for what is being observed. Please try the examples. Then there are two question at the end about possible UI/UX improvements for using Lists, in light of these examples. -------------------------- Example 1 Copy text between dashed lines to a New document, so you can have the instructions to follow, while using the text of those instructions for the examples. Select the lines in this list under Example 1 and Apply direct bulleted list formatting (Shift+F12) Place cursor in list (e.g., second line), right click, and choose "Bullets and Numbering > Bullet List" Actual result: item will move to right margin, keeping its bullet Explanation: "List 1" (Bullet • List Style) is assigned to "Bullet List" in the context menu, so choosing "Bullet List" has now applied that list style to the selected item (as seen in Styles Inspector). Example 2 Right-click the just-created "List 1" item in the list, choose "Bullets and Numbering > Bullets and Numbering", then Numbering tab, and choose any numbering scheme. Actual Result: the "bulleted" item changes to a numbered item. Explanation: Direct formatting was just applied to that item that just got a list style in Example 1. Example 3 Place your cursor on this line, right-click, select "Bullets and Numbering > Bullet List" Actual result: the numbering scheme applied in the previous example will be applied to this item. Explanation: Bullet List assigns the same list style, and its direct formatting is carried further. -------------------------------- (The same “trick„ can be done by starting with Numbering DF list, changing to a Bullet scheme, and then later, when you try “Styles > Numbered List„, on a Default PS, a bulleted item will appear (but is a Numbering 123 List Style). Issues for UXEval: 1. Maybe “Text | Bullets and Numbering„ context menu should be called “Lists„ Reasons(s): (a) more consistent with Character and Paragraph that appear just before, (b) most of the items in the context menu are List styles. 2. Given that mostly “List Styles„ are being shown in context menu for lists, should the DF dialog “Bullets and Numbering„ be offered at all in the context menu? Reason to be concerned: It applies direct formatting, without making clear that it is "different" from the other context menu items, and can lead to creating confusing situations (if you did not know about the underlying conceptual model of lists in LO, and had the Style Inspector). Not an easy or obvious answer to this question. Character and Paragraph offer both “direct formatting„ and “edit style„ options. Perhaps: (a) add an “Edit Style„ option for Lists to this context menu. (b) change label for “Bullets and Numbering„ to (e.g.,) “Modify list item„ Reason: with an “edit style„ and a “modify„ in same context menu, there is a better chance to be aware whether one is using DF or modifying a list style.
Have to admit that I cannot follow this long description. Could you please focus on one issue per ticket and make the description shorter? What I understand is that uno:OutlineBullet (menu) is different to uno:DefaultBullet (shortcut). This issue has probably filed before.
The only issue in comment 0 is the context menu: Text | Bullets and Numbering. (changed summary to reflect this) The "examples" are instructions to be tried, meant to give experiences that motivate the suggestions. They are not meant to be "read" without trying. The suggestions in comment 0 are: 1. (consider) changing context menu label to: Text | Lists (i.e., right-click in any paragraph: "Bullets and Numbering" -> "Lists") Reasons in comment 0. 2a. add an "Edit Style" command to this context menu that would open the List Style dialog. (afaik, there is no .uno for Edit List Style) Reasons in comment 0. Since filing this ticket, have discovered that the Bullets and Numbering dialog from the context menu modifies the List Style of a list item (if a list style was applied), but the dialog box shows "Bullets and Numbering", not "List Style" (as would happen if a List Style was modified in the Side Bar). The Bullets and Numbering dialog should not modify List Styles. 2b. (was about changing the label "Bullets and Numbering" in the context menu, but this point interacts with 2a., so will open another ticket, if necessary).
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #2) > 1. (consider) changing context menu label to: Text | Lists Sure, this would align with the other effort you made. > 2a. add an "Edit Style" command to this context menu It is the first "Bullets and Numbering..." entry. Could be renamed (and moved to the end). Please double-check where uno:OutlineBullet and uno:DefaultBullet are used to make sure the short and simple "List" is self-explanatory.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3) > > 1. (consider) changing context menu label to: Text | Lists > > Sure, this would align with the other effort you made. https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/110928
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3) > > 2a. add an "Edit Style" command to this context menu > > It is the first "Bullets and Numbering..." entry. Could be renamed (and > moved to the end). I believe that I have a pretty good idea of what label appears in what menu/toolbar, etc. -- but there is another issue -- about functionality -- that needs to be addressed -- before possible labelling changes. But first a clarification is needed. You seem to confirm the objection in comment 2, point 2a. That is, you are indicating that, at present, .uno:OutlineBullet (which is at the top of the Text context submenu for Bullets and Numbering) is modifying List Styles themselves (if the cursor is on a list item with a List Style). But notice ... in that situation...when the dialog box is opened, there is no "Organizer" tab. In other words, there is no way that a person would know that they are modifying a List Style (or even which List Style). Meanwhile, in contrast, when a List Style is opened from the Sidebar, there is an organizer tab, and the dialog box says "List Style". This does not seem possible at present from the context menu -- which is the initial point of 2a. So: (a) there is no point in renaming the current .uno:OutlineBullet because it operates both on DF lists and List Styles. and (b) it seems like a bad thing that the Bullets and Numbering dialog is modifying the List Style. As a perfect analogy, it would be like using the Paragraph dialog to modify a paragraph and have the changes registered for the Paragraph Style. That is what is happening now for List.
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/8805448f44624a5981ba252f060dcb9dee07abc3 tdf#140058 "Bullets and Numbering" -> "List" in Text context menu It will be available in 7.2.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/ccdd11b61f94bfb188676fa5ad2aab63949dd5b3 tdf#140058 repair which Bullet and Numbering label is changed It will be available in 7.2.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
Thanks to the updated "No Numbering" -> "No List" (with radio button) (bug 115965 ), it seems appropriate/relevant to move that item from the bottom of the context menu being discussed here to the top of the list of list styles that can be applied, plus get the "radio button" property. This patch does that: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/111176
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #8) >... it seems appropriate/relevant to move "No List" from the bottom of > the context menu ... to the top Yes, the default item should be the first. > https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/111176 It does, true. Toolbars still have the "No List" item last.
Seth Chaiklin committed a patch related to this issue. It has been pushed to "master": https://git.libreoffice.org/core/commit/0ee761853fd93dd66805d53636fe55c8879063da tdf#140058 move "No List" position in context menu; add radio button It will be available in 7.2.0. The patch should be included in the daily builds available at https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More information about daily builds can be found at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #2) > 2a. add an "Edit Style" command to this context menu that would open the > List Style dialog. (afaik, there is no .uno for Edit List Style) Opened now as a separate bug 140612. Modifying summary for this bug 140058 to reflect its focus.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #9) >Toolbars still have the "No List" item last. iiuc, "No List" is in the correct position in the toolbars. Status: Context menu for list seems in pretty good shape now, except for the question about Edit List Style (bug 140612), which has consequences for the current "Bullets and Numbering" command at the top of the context menu. Will leave this bug 140058 open for the Text context menu, which depends on what happens with bug 140612.
The main issues in this ticket were either addressed or spun out into new tickets. So I will closed this as FIXED. In the future it may be worth looking at the List context menu again, if the issue bug 140612 resolves in favor of adding an Edit List Style command.
verified as fixed in: Version: 7.2.4.1 / LibreOffice Community Build ID: 27d75539669ac387bb498e35313b970b7fe9c4f9 CPU threads: 4; OS: Linux 5.4; UI render: default; VCL: gtk3 Locale: en-AU (en_AU.UTF-8); UI: en-US Calc: threaded