At present, .uno:BulletOutline (Format > Bullets and Numbering and Text | List | Bullets and Numbering) can be used to modify both DF lists and List Styles.
The dialog box opened with that command gives no indication that a List Style is being modified. (unless one notices that a list style name is indicated in Status Bar)
In contrast, in Sidebar for List Styles, right-click on a list style and choose "Modify". Now an Organizer tab is included.
1. In the UI, the "Bullets and Numbering" command (dialog) should not modify List Styles (as it does at present).
2. When a List Style is being modified, it should be via an "Edit List Style" command, with the List Style dialog (templatedialog16.ui) which has the Organizer tab.
a. should be parallel to Character and Paragraph context menus, where it is possible to edit a Character or a Paragraph (where that dialog does not modify the Character Style or Paragraph Style). For Character and Paragraph, there are separate dialogs that must be chosen to modify the Style (where these dialogs also have an Organizer tab).
I recognize that "Organizer" tab is more or less "useless" for List styles (beyond giving a name to a custom style), but it gives a clear visual indicator that a List Style is being modified, that is comparable to when styles in the other style families are modified. The clear indication that a List Style is involved is the important issue here, where the Organizer tab is an already established familiar appearance (i.e., other solutions might be possible).
b. at present, the Bullets and Numbering command in the Text | List context menu modifies both List Style and DF list, with no clear indication for the user that a List Style is being modified (i.e., what looks like an attempt to apply direct formatting to a List Style actually changes the list style definition).
No strong suggestion for UI implications yet. First need to clarify the relation between .uno:OutlineBullet and its behavior in relation to DF versus List Style.
The reason is likely that B&N list styles are generated on-the-fly while the sidebar provides a selection of predefined list styles. Plus what is being used in the document.
The solution is IMHO to have two dialogs, one for selecting a list and the other to create a new style. The list styles created on-the-fly should be added to the respective styles deck and the style picker dialog.
Mike, what do you think?
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #1)
> Mike, what do you think?
I don't quite see what you propose specifically (a mockup?), but personally I would welcome splitting the current dialog somehow (but I myself don't have a vision how).
Created attachment 170151 [details]
Started with a simple list in one dialog and another dialog similar to what has been done in https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2017/10/28/impress-lists/. But actually we might put both together and have it in line the other new dialogs.
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #2)
> personally I would welcome splitting the current dialog somehow
Please say some more about why.
After more reflection and analysis...
I am inclined to drop Proposal 1 (because there may be adequate UI solutions), but continue to promote Proposal 2, now elaborated as follows:
1. If the cursor is on a paragraph that has a List Style, then the text context menu should:
a. only show "Edit Style" which opens the the current List Style dialog,
which is templatedialog16.ui (i.e., with Organizer tab), on top
of the current B&N dialog (bulletsandnumbering.ui)
b. the "Bullets and Numbering" command should not be shown in this case.
2. If the cursor is on a DF list para or non-list para, show B&N command, but not Edit Style command.
Reason: The dynamic context menu "protects" and "informs" the user by only offering the List Style command/dialog when the para has a list style.
The B&N dialog would still be able to modify a list style, if the cursor was on a list style item, but at least the context menu would not offer the possibility. An additional improvement would be to disable .uno:OutlineBullet in these cases, but until then I assume that Style users are less likely to go to the Format menu or Formatting toolbar to use B&N command, when they know they have a list style. (protection by obscurity).