Created attachment 43448 [details]
Printscreen of the two softwares
The revision tool in Word XP places all comments, deletions, and formatting
changes in text balloons on the margin of the document (with the Print View enabled). Each text balloon is colored differently for each author and type of change. Since deletions are removed from the body of the document, the impact of changes on pagination and document length can easily be determined, and text reading is easier.
Improved track changes in LO is crucial for most users in professional environments. Particularly in academic teams, where reviewing articles is a standard procedure, people reject using OOo/LO due to this lacking feature. For more information on this, please see:
Entry in the Documentfoundation WIKI:
Quite comprehensive overview of this problem and comparisons to other office suites:
Related bug in OpenOffice issue tracker:
RC2 is bit by bit identical with release version, so separate items in the version picker are useless. Changes have been discussed with Michael Meeks.
There have been some ideation iterations within the OOo Notes2 implementation, see "Change Tracking Integration" at:
The mockup I've created that time:
[This is an automated message.]
This bug was filed before the changes to Bugzilla on 2011-10-16. Thus it
started right out as NEW without ever being explicitly confirmed. The bug is
changed to state NEEDINFO for this reason. To move this bug from NEEDINFO back
to NEW please check if the bug still persists with the 3.5.0 beta1 or beta2 prereleases.
Details on how to test the 3.5.0 beta1 can be found at:
more detail on this bulk operation: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/RFC-Operation-Spamzilla-tp3607474p3607474.html
This issue remains unresolved in LibreOffice 3.5.0 (tested and confirmed with beta2 prerelease).
The key issue is that the "Compare Document" functionality of LibreOffice Writer is woefully inadequate. For example, type (without quotes):
"LibreOffice Writer. Compare Document."
Save as version1.odt. Then add one space at the start and one paragraph marker after the first period, as follows (again without the quotes):
" LibreOffice Writer.
Save as version2.odt. Now use "Compare Document" to identify the changes in version2.odt relative to version1.odt: We simply get the full text twice, and EVERYTHING is marked as changed, either as inserted or as deleted.
Now try editing and version comparison not of a page with just four words, but of a 40-page report or of a 250-page book: This is simply a catastrophe with whole coloured swathes of repeated identical or near-identical text, but all identified and marked by LibreOffice as completely different.
CONCLUSION: "Compare Document" in LibreOffice Writer at the moment is completely clueless and completely useless.
Yet fine-grained comparison of versions of a document is an absolutely essential function, eg in editing, in collaborative projects, and similar.
The way is which the results of good fine-grained version comparison are presented (eg, in the main text, in a margin, in balloons, or otherwise) is less relevant than the very ability itself to compare and identify precisely and exclusively all true changes.
And this also applies to footnotes, endnotes, fields, headers, footers, frames, etc, which are currently completely ignored by LibreOffice Writer "Document Compare".
tested and confirmed with beta2 prerelease
Yes changes are a real need, and LO 3.5.5 is not good enough.
For me, this simple step would already be a good improvement:
- to be able to display Writer document with changes only with Margin Marks
- add an Attribute "Hidden" in Deletions Attributes (th
For your information: "Use margins to track changes" is the *Number 2* of the TopTen for Enhancement Requests on the Documentfoudation Wiki.
Please see the votes on: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement#Top_Ten_of_Requests
Triggered by question http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/8809/track-changes/?answer=8812#post-id-8812 in AskLibO I looked into bugzilla and found there is an enhancement request for printing of comments at the page margin. (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36815) . Maybe these to request can be dealt together.
The poor handling of editing comments is basically the only feature keeping me from deploying LO at my work (researchers), please pretty please add this.
The original OpenOffice.org bug report was submitted twelve (!) years ago: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=9661
Are there patent issues preventing this from being addressed or is no developer considering this an issue needed to be dealt with?
In my professional context, this is /the/ major showstopper preventing many of my colleagues from abandoning MS Office. Everyone is used to changes being visualised in bubbles on the margins. (And everyone is use to being able to print draft documents out this way for on-paper review, but that's another issue).
I would really like to warmly recommend to make this a priority!!!
Extremely important for me. Probably the most important reason to shift to LibreOffice since I need to collaborate with other people and use track change all the time. Showing changes in balloons is the prefer way for edition.
*** Bug 47298 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Update on vote for enhancements: "Use margins to track changes" is with 11 votes *Number 1* of the TopTen for Enhancement Requests on the Documentfoudation Wiki.
Please see the votes on: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement#Top_Ten_of_Requests
If this enhancement is important for you, consider adding your vote to the wiki page.
P.S. Of course, if there are many votes, there is no guarantee that developers start working on this enhancement, but still it shows the relevance of this enhancement.
Not so good idea for me. In the attached printscreen it is very difficult to see the deleted text. You can't read the text as it was before deletion, that is very inconvenient when you have to decide to accept or refuse the change.
I would prefer an easy way to switch on/off the viewing of changes.
Best regards. JBF
Just to follow on from the other comments, the presentation of deleted text with tracked changes as underline or strikethrough, etc. in the main body of the text makes it unusable for me. Others may be more tolerant, but with many changes it is not possible for me to both monitor my changes and read the intended meaning of the modified sentence if the deleted text remains. The ability to move the tracking of deletions to the margin or possibly just a place marker on the outside of the main lines of text would make this program an easy choice over MS Office. Of course, one could track changes and not show them in the present version of Writer, but this does not allow the editor to do his or her work without flipping back and forth between different versions. Balloons work well, but maybe just a mark of where the text was deleted and the ability to maybe mouseover the area and get a bubble of the deletion would be a good halfway point. Happy to help if there is some way to contribute.
What about if we had a button in the track changes dialog allowing to apply/removing a set of changes *temporarily*. Such a function could allow to see a change in situation and see what the text is without the change.
Best regards. JBF
I just checked the list of new features for LO 5.0 beta, and unfortunately, no mention of an improved way to show track changes.
I am doing a lot of collaborative writing in an academic environment, and I agree with many others here that the current way of displaying the changes is not really usable. Keeping all the deleted text crossed-out will also give a completely wrong impression of the actual length of the text after the edits. In many cases, one targets a particular word or page limit, where this is totally misleading.
What could be done in order to bring this to the attention of more developers? Is this really to difficult to implement? Apparently, there is already a mechanism to place comments as balloons on the margins. So shouldn't it also be possible to display deleted text like this, like MS Word does? Only the display colors, etc., of the actual balloon would have to be a bit different to distinguish it from a comment.
Does anyone have an idea whether this is being worked on? It's not in the just-released v5.3, and the developers are only starting to populate the 5.4 release notes.
I heard rumors that this will be included (or perhaps has already been implemented?) for the online version of Libreoffice (where, of course, it would make a lot of sense for optimized collaborative editing).
I agree, LO's implementation of (particularly in displaying) tracked changes is still decidedly inferior to MS Word 97/2003, which was my first exposure to such options.
In my case, I downloaded LO for some of the perks it offers over OO (including having a review toolbar shipped by default; I had to build one manually in OO).
One big thing that LO should have is the concept of 'original' vs. 'final' views of a document with tracked edits. Currently the only two views we have are "show markup" (original + markup) and "hide markup (final + no markup). This is insufficient; it should be expanded to match Word's level of functionality where original v. final and with/without markup are separate options. This gives us a combination of four view modes:
- "Original with markup" forces deletions to be displayed inline; insertions can be displayed inline or as margin balloons.
- "Final with markup" forces insertions to be displayed inline; deletions can be displayed inline or as margin balloons.
One big issue I have run into is that LO's handling of tracked linebreak edits is that when markup is shown, the document is displayed reflecting *ALL* linebreaks in the file, even ones that were inserted or deleted. This impacts how the display is paginated, not cool...
*** Bug 79420 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Being duped by bug 79420 it's better to have all discussion at this place.
In the Bug 79420 report, you mentioned that this is being implemented on (Comment #5). Do you have any additional insight in this regard? Any idea for what release of LO this is targeted?
(In reply to whynot from comment #25)
> In the Bug 79420 report, you mentioned that this is being implemented on
> (Comment #5).
As announced in the release notes , the sidebar deck "Manage Changes" was implemented with 5.3 as an experimental feature (don't remember why). If you are a brave user enable experimental features per Tools > Options > LibreOffice: Advanced.
Oh, my goodness! That is so exciting! Thank you so much for this information. I usually pay quite close attention to the LO release notes, but I must have missed this one because it was under "Experimental" (without a lot of explanations) and not under "Writer").
Definitely, the possibility to sort comments by date and other features will be extremely powerful! I am not even aware that this functionality exists in MS Word.
(And yes, I am usually a "brave user" of LO experimental features...)
That said, while this sidebar is wonderful to display and manage the changes, it does not address the main thread of this bug: to display the changes on the margins. Also, as far as I can see, the sidebar only shows "metadata" of the changes (date, author, kind of change). Correct?
(In reply to whynot from comment #27)
> ...it does not address the main thread of this bug: to display the
> changes on the margins. Also, as far as I can see, the sidebar only shows
> "metadata" of the changes (date, author, kind of change). Correct?
The sidebar has limited capabilities today, yes. We discussed the requirements at https://user-prompt.com/de/tracking-changes-with-libreoffice/ mainly with focus on bug 87695. But there is also an alternative solution to the margin issue included.
I personally gave up using LO for novels, short stories and RPG editing just because of that blatant lack of an essential feature.
So each time Ubuntu gives me a LO update (so far 1:5.2.5~rc1-0ubuntu1~xenial0), I check that, but there's no usable change-tracking, and I go back to Windows and Word, infuriated.
IMHO, this is a no-brainer : anyone professionally using a text editor needs to track changes, and displaying changes in the text itself makes the text unreadable, and therefore the whole change-tracking feature unusable.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #26)
> As announced in the release notes , the sidebar deck "Manage Changes" was
> implemented with 5.3 as an experimental feature (don't remember why). If you
> are a brave user enable experimental features per Tools > Options >
> LibreOffice: Advanced.
Unfortunately, this just moves the changes dialogue into a sidebar, but it does not add new functionality, or even implement what the reporter of this bug has asked for (and what MS Word has been having now for a decade)
(In reply to Johannes Rohr from comment #30)
> Unfortunately, this just moves the changes dialogue into a sidebar...
That's true. It's only a small step, nothing else.