Bug 107343 - F10 behaviour when the menu is hidden
Summary: F10 behaviour when the menu is hidden
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: LibreOffice (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
Inherited From OOo
Hardware: All All
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: Notebookbar-a11y
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Reported: 2017-04-21 22:29 UTC by Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired)
Modified: 2018-12-09 09:35 UTC (History)
5 users (show)

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Description Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-04-21 22:29:08 UTC
Stuart has suggested that when the menu is hidden, F10 unhides it, as F10 is a direct keyboard shortcut to immediately jump to the menu.

I think that if a user purposefully hides the menubar or the MUFFIN interface defaults to hide the menubar, that F10 shouldnt unhide it. Instead, if the the tabbed Notebookbar is enable, it should jump to the Home tab.
Comment 1 V Stuart Foote 2017-04-21 23:27:29 UTC
Sorry, but in using the Notebookbar (or presumably any other MUFFIN assemblage that hides the main menu) exposing the main menu without fuss is desirable. But I take your point that with the Tabbed Notebookbar now hiding the main menu by default, one would want to be on the "hamburger" configuration tab to expose the main menu.

So some room for doing something clever--it just needs to be consistent across all the GUI.
Comment 2 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-04-22 00:49:42 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #1)
> Sorry, but in using the Notebookbar (or presumably any other MUFFIN
> assemblage that hides the main menu) exposing the main menu without fuss is
> desirable.

What would be the purpose of exposing the main menu bar when all commands in it are available the Notebookbar? I would believe very few users using the tabbed Notebookbar would also choose to enable the menu bar.

> But I take your point that with the Tabbed Notebookbar now hiding
> the main menu by default, one would want to be on the "hamburger"
> configuration tab to expose the main menu.

The point i wanted to get across is that the tabs of the Notebookbar are equivalent to the main categories of the main menu. The hamburger menu might be exposed at the end of the cycle, but wouldnt think to put it as the starting place of F10.
Comment 3 V Stuart Foote 2017-04-22 01:20:26 UTC
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #2)
> (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #1)
> > Sorry, but in using the Notebookbar (or presumably any other MUFFIN
> > assemblage that hides the main menu) exposing the main menu without fuss is
> > desirable.
> 
> What would be the purpose of exposing the main menu bar when all commands in
> it are available the Notebookbar? I would believe very few users using the
> tabbed Notebookbar would also choose to enable the menu bar.
> 

Entering or leaving any of the MUFFIN configurations is still going to need the main menu--not providing easy access to it when hidden will just frustrate users. No problem with hiding it (although exposing it is the first thing I do with the tabbed Notebookbar) but it should not then be a hassle to unhide it to move to another GUI configuration.


> > But I take your point that with the Tabbed Notebookbar now hiding
> > the main menu by default, one would want to be on the "hamburger"
> > configuration tab to expose the main menu.
> 
> The point i wanted to get across is that the tabs of the Notebookbar are
> equivalent to the main categories of the main menu. The hamburger menu might
> be exposed at the end of the cycle, but wouldnt think to put it as the
> starting place of F10.

So keep it simple and consistent, F10 toggles a hidden main menu open and lands on it at its normal File menu. Then an F6 to advance into the Notebook bar (or other MUFFIN layout) or use an appropriate short-cut/accelerator as defined.
Comment 4 Heiko Tietze 2017-04-22 07:42:17 UTC
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #2)
> The point i wanted to get across is that the tabs of the Notebookbar are
> equivalent to the main categories of the main menu. 

If you run the tabbed variant. Every time I have to click the hamburger, enable the main menu, go to view > toolbars to switch from the default. Feeling trapped.
F10 or just Alt are good.
Comment 5 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-04-22 11:47:46 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #4)
> If you run the tabbed variant. Every time I have to click the hamburger,
> enable the main menu, go to view > toolbars to switch from the default.
> Feeling trapped.
> F10 or just Alt are good.

You may feel trapped because you are switching away, but we can easily add the View > Notebookbar submenu into the hamburger tab popup menu to make it easy to switch away without the menu bar.

But the main focus here should be for people who are living in the tabbed variant. If they choose to have it always on, they will enable it and not look back, so F10 will function as it does from then onwards, and even if they switch to another MUFFIN interface and back to the tabbed variant, the menubar will still be there.

Tomaz has code for unhiding the menu bar temporarily (bug 90195 comment 4), so hopefully it can get completed and that will be an option, though i think alt should work on the tabs when the menubar is hidden (bug 107344).
Comment 6 Volga 2017-12-24 16:28:34 UTC
Hello Szymon Kłos,

Is it possible to add this instruction into .uno:Menubar command?
Comment 7 andreas_k 2018-11-21 13:24:36 UTC
the uno:menubar command is available in tabbed, tabbed compact in the tab row (top left) and in the menu (hamburger menu)

Have an menubar shortcut could be usefull also in an non notebookbar mode, eg. you can remove all toolbars and hide the menubar (by shortcut) than you can have an empty UI where you see only your content.
Comment 8 V Stuart Foote 2018-11-21 14:37:31 UTC
(In reply to andreas_k from comment #7)
> the uno:menubar command is available in tabbed, tabbed compact in the tab
> row (top left) and in the menu (hamburger menu)
> 
> Have an menubar shortcut could be usefull also in an non notebookbar mode,
> eg. you can remove all toolbars and hide the menubar (by shortcut) than you
> can have an empty UI where you see only your content.

So you are suggesting single UNO command linkage to toggle display of *both* Menu/Toolbars and of the MUFFIN elements from Notebook Bar/Sidebar & Decks, clearing the UI?

I like the idea, but insist that because the F10 shortcut (along with F6) function as cornerstone of the a11y and keyboard only navigation mechanism--it is not just for display, but also to position the program focus to a *known* home position, and that has not been fully implemented as MUFFIN has evolved.

IHMO, toggling all GUI controls on or off would be a fresh UX, but it merits its own dedicated control.   Exposure of the main Menubar (in all UI) and positioning focus onto its initial File entry is the minimum behavior--adjusting its behavior for use with a MUFFIN assemblage would have to be done carefully.

Overloading additional actions on the F10, beyond legacy movements or to expose/reposition Menubar focus for the work done for bug 99195 risks breaking a11y, and general keyboard navigation.
Comment 9 andreas_k 2018-12-08 23:02:00 UTC
For me this bug is similar to BUG 107358.
Comment 10 Heiko Tietze 2018-12-09 09:35:32 UTC
(In reply to andreas_k from comment #9)
> For me this bug is similar to BUG 107358.

Those are different workflows. F10 is the default to put the focus on the main menu (typically File as the first item) while Alt is the modifier for shortcut keys at the current context and also used to show hidden underscores.