Bug Hunting Session
Bug 33603 - Presenter notes should be available in normal view as a scrolling pane
Summary: Presenter notes should be available in normal view as a scrolling pane
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Impress (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
3.3.0 release
Hardware: Other All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: needsDevEval, topicUI
: 92391 95994 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks: 47448 Notes-View
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2011-01-27 09:23 UTC by Jean-François Fortin Tam
Modified: 2019-09-22 15:38 UTC (History)
15 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
First rough mockup of the UI for adding notes (324.18 KB, image/png)
2014-01-30 19:06 UTC, Tin Man
Details
Quick mockup of notes UI (hidden by default) (323.14 KB, image/png)
2014-01-30 19:31 UTC, Tin Man
Details
Quick mockup of notes UI (shown) (322.87 KB, image/png)
2014-01-30 19:39 UTC, Tin Man
Details
Mockup of a vertical scrolling notes layout reusing the standard LibreOffice sidebar expander widgets (172.54 KB, image/png)
2019-09-22 15:38 UTC, Jean-François Fortin Tam
Details

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Description Jean-François Fortin Tam 2011-01-27 09:23:36 UTC
Cloning/rewording some comments from:
http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=56172
http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=80195

PowerPoint (and other apps) allows users to edit the notes associated with a slide just by entering the text in a edit-form right under the slide*. The current behavior in LibreOffice Impress is to show slides and notes as a single "paper-like" page.

This approach has many problems:
- Lengthy notes overflow from the page instead of scrolling
- Every slide needs to be zoomed in/out, scrolled up/down, because of this
- You have to "care" about font size because of the lack of scrolling
- You cannot edit the slide's contents at the same time as editing notes
- Selecting text is difficult (you have to place the mouse cursor precisely on characters to activate the "text box" that contains the notes)
- Margins all around, wasting tons of precious space on computer screens
- It tries to emulate paper on a piece of software that is definitely not meant for it as a preferred target medium (why would we need this if we could write notes in Writer anyway?)
- You can't view all notes of all slides in a combined manner


*Note: I'd suggest taking advantage of widescreen monitor aspect ratios and putting the notes widget in the sidebar on the right, instead of eating precious vertical space. Besides, most presenter notes are meant to be a collection of short sentences (bullet-point style), which means that they are typically better suited for a vertical layout instead of a horizontal layout (since some lines may not fill the entire space).
Comment 1 Gaetano Giunta 2011-06-13 08:36:01 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 2 Don't use this account, use tml@iki.fi 2011-06-13 08:48:46 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 3 Björn Michaelsen 2011-12-23 11:49:04 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 4 A (Andy) 2013-04-23 19:47:42 UTC
changed to enhancement request
Comment 5 Tin Man 2014-01-30 19:06:21 UTC
Created attachment 93080 [details]
First rough mockup of the UI for adding notes
Comment 6 Tin Man 2014-01-30 19:31:55 UTC
Created attachment 93086 [details]
Quick mockup of notes UI (hidden by default)
Comment 7 Tin Man 2014-01-30 19:39:10 UTC
Created attachment 93087 [details]
Quick mockup of notes UI (shown)

So, the basic idea behind my proposal is to have an additional pane for notes, collapsed by default.

To add notes, one would expand the pane. LibreOffice would automatically bring cursor focus to the Notes field and, if the zoom level was set to "Fit width and height", it would adjust the zoom level so that the slide fit snugly above the Notes pane.
Comment 8 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2015-08-09 02:39:06 UTC
Great enhancement for impress, so lets see how hard it is to implement.
Comment 9 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2015-10-28 16:21:29 UTC
Math has a similar panel for typing in text, though it doesnt have formatting capabilities.
Comment 10 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2015-12-01 07:13:42 UTC
*** Bug 92391 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 11 Óvári 2015-12-01 08:44:05 UTC
*** Bug 95994 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 12 Óvári 2015-12-01 08:47:45 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 13 Robinson Tryon (qubit) 2015-12-13 11:24:17 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 14 Simon Phipps 2017-02-07 17:37:57 UTC
This seems to have slipped out of sight. As a presenter this is a key reason I might not use Impress. I wonder if we might get a developer assessment of this issue please, which while strictly an enhancement actually conceals a usability bug.
Comment 15 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-05-12 22:33:33 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 16 Thorsten Behrens (CIB) 2017-05-13 00:51:03 UTC
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #15)
> @Thorsten, @Maxim: Could you possibly evaluate how difficult this would be
> to achieve? Thanks.

Not terribly hard, it's essentially re-jiggering existing functionality. Can provide code pointers if there's interest.
Comment 17 Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired) 2017-05-13 12:15:50 UTC
(In reply to Thorsten Behrens (CIB) from comment #16)
> Not terribly hard, it's essentially re-jiggering existing functionality. Can
> provide code pointers if there's interest.

Yes please do if you dont already know someone interested in taking it on, as this would highly improve the UX for professionals.
Comment 18 document.foundation 2018-02-06 11:51:25 UTC
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #17)
> (In reply to Thorsten Behrens (CIB) from comment #16)
> > Not terribly hard, it's essentially re-jiggering existing functionality. Can
> > provide code pointers if there's interest.
> 
> Yes please do if you dont already know someone interested in taking it on,
> as this would highly improve the UX for professionals.

Also interested to work on this.
This is the main reason why I keep on using other tools to prepare slides for presentations.

No need for fancy formatting in this dockable pane, usual suspects are fine as the idea is to be able to get references and additional information useful to presenters and possibly viewers (when sharing the Notes).
Comment 19 machineghost 2018-03-10 17:56:18 UTC Comment hidden (no-value)
Comment 20 machineghost 2018-03-10 18:06:03 UTC Comment hidden (no-value)
Comment 21 Richard Neill 2018-07-19 20:35:00 UTC
You're absolutely right. When I make slides, I am always editing the visuals (what goes on the slide and then the projector screen), and my speech (what goes in the notes, and I use as the autocue) in parallel. It would make LO *so* much more productive if the speaker notes were always visible  at the same time, rather than laboriously having to context switch in and out of the Notes view (about 5 seconds every time, after the slides re-flow).  I estimate this one thing would have saved me 10 hours of work this week.

In an ideal world, for me:

* The area around the slide itself would be locked, to avoid pointless hor/vert scrolling

* The notes would always be visible, under the main slide, [or perhaps in a side panel] - and the place for typing them shouldn't move around or be deletable.

* The notes area would be forced to plaintext - yes, I want to be able to embed line-breaks (and maybe bold/italic/underline), but I really don't want any more than that level of formatting - and it always looks messy on printouts if the speaker notes embed random font sizes, or the position moves around underneath the slide.

* When giving a presentation, the notes should show up in the optimal way for autocue, say at 18pt font, in one of the most legible - this might be a property of LO's config, rather than the specific presentation - and obviously, shrink the font if the notes are so long that they scroll off the screen!

* When exporting, the notes should be well laid out under the slide, and should not move sideways. 

Fixing this would definitely merit a bug bounty from me - thanks.
Comment 22 Stefano Mersi 2018-07-20 07:24:05 UTC
I would subscribe to a bounty to implement the feature as described by Richard Neill
Comment 23 b.daams 2019-04-02 21:34:29 UTC
Any progress on this usability issue? I'd love to be able to write notes and design slides simultaneously!
Comment 24 BottleOnTheGround 2019-06-06 19:14:06 UTC
Same here, I would also really like to see this feature available. 

@Notes for "what do I say during the presentation":
Imo, The current style is inconvenient for notes regarding what the speaker says.
My usual note length exceeds the space for notes inside the notes view by far. That makes using notes a little harrowing.

@Notes for other people
The Notes View makes total sense!
Comment 25 Jean-François Fortin Tam 2019-09-22 15:38:12 UTC
Created attachment 154370 [details]
Mockup of a vertical scrolling notes layout reusing the standard LibreOffice sidebar expander widgets

As I stated in my original bug report above, I believe an approach with a "horizontal" notes pane (bottom bar) would be inferior to one where we use a vertical sidebar, for three simple reasons:

* Computer screens are widescreen (unlike the 90's where PowerPoint's bottom bar came from) or even ultra-wide (one of my screens is 21:9), so I have more UI pixels to spare on that dimension than in the other.
* Presenter notes are often meant to be bulletpoint-style short sentences, they are better-suited to a vertical layout (they would "waste" the space of a horizontal layout and require very tedious scrolling). And super wide sentences suck for reading and wouldn't even remotely resemble what would actually be shown on the presenter screen, anyway.
* The technical implementation would be easier, because you wouldn't have to create a whole new pane widget, you just reuse the existing sidebar and add a new component in there, which should make it relatively straightforward.

Attaching a mockup that illustrates how this would actually look like in practice.