Bug 128469 - PARAGRAPH STYLE DIALOG: "Reset" and "Standard" buttons: confusing names
Summary: PARAGRAPH STYLE DIALOG: "Reset" and "Standard" buttons: confusing names
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
Inherited From OOo
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: needsUXEval
: 136340 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks: Writer-Styles-Paragraph Styles-Dialog
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Reported: 2019-10-29 16:41 UTC by John
Modified: 2020-09-15 11:50 UTC (History)
8 users (show)

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Crash report or crash signature:


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Description John 2019-10-29 16:41:21 UTC
Description:
The style window have 2 buttons with very similar names: Standard and Reset.

* Standard: resets the settings of the style to those of parent style
* Reset: works very similar to Cancel. The only difference that it doesn't close the window.

To my opinion, the Reset button isn't really useful/necessary (Wikipedia: Occam's razor) for the users. Moreover, its name conflicts with Standard.

* There are 2 possible ways to change it:

  a) Keep both buttons, but give them better names. Probably:

     Reset    --> Revert
     Standard --> Reset

  b) Remove "Reset" button and rename "Standard" to "Reset".

Steps to Reproduce:
-

Actual Results:
-

Expected Results:
-


Reproducible: Always


User Profile Reset: No



Additional Info:
Comment 1 Dieter 2019-10-29 19:22:47 UTC
(In reply to John from comment #0)
> Description:
> The style window have 2 buttons with very similar names: Standard and Reset.

I assume, you mean paragraph style dialog => I precisd bug title
 
> * Standard: resets the settings of the style to those of parent style
> * Reset: works very similar to Cancel. The only difference that it doesn't
> close the window.

I don't know the function of that buttons and I couldn't find informations in help

cc: Design Team for further input
Comment 2 Heiko Tietze 2019-11-01 09:26:19 UTC
Reset should revert all modifications you made while the dialog is open. But admittedly it has a very limited use-case. And if we talk about this I don't see much need to reset style settings to the parent and if we remove the Reset function we should consider the same for Standard.
Comment 3 Regina Henschel 2019-11-01 14:50:24 UTC
The "Standard" button is currently the only way to remove a setting in the style, so that the inherit setting is used. It must stay until a different solution is implemented and tested.

It should be possible, to cancel and reopen the dialog instead of the "Reset" button. But I don't know whether it works. The problem is, that touching a field will produce an entry of that value to the style, but when? Is there no entry if "Reset" is used? Is there no entry if "Cancel" is used?
Comment 4 John 2019-11-01 15:37:45 UTC
Well, to be honest I regret about my idea to remove the "Reset" button. It works in symmetry with "Apply" button - and therefore, to preserve the consistency, it should be preserved. 

However, the names are not perfect. I would rather suggest to think about the better names - and nothing more.
Comment 5 Cor Nouws 2019-11-06 18:49:33 UTC
IIRC, this has been discussed. Or the HELP for the buttons has been improved recently... In any case: good that you support the idea of better wording / popup, John.
Removing honestly is no option..
Comment 6 Heiko Tietze 2019-11-07 08:41:45 UTC
Proposals to rename are so far:

 Reset    --> Revert
 Standard --> Reset

An alternative to "Revert" could be "Unapply" (worse term though). But I don't like those over-sophisticated terms, It's not easier to understand for users who don't read this ticket. If we keep Apply best antonym is Reset. 

For Standard I could imagine "Default" or "Parent Style".
Comment 7 John 2019-11-07 09:48:59 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #6)

Reset    --> Undo or Clear or some
Standard --> Reset

?

My main point is that Standard should be changed to Reset. Because this is what the user expect, I believe.

The new name for Reset button is a question.
Comment 8 Regina Henschel 2019-11-07 10:15:20 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #6)
> Proposals to rename are so far:
> 
>  Reset    --> Revert
>  Standard --> Reset

That produces confusion. The user rightly expects the "Reset" button to do the same as in previous versions.
Comment 9 Dieter 2019-11-07 12:44:33 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #6)
> For Standard I could imagine "Default" or "Parent Style".

I support this, because I suppose, that most of the users don't know the meaning of "Standard"

We also have "Reset" in all other style dialogs and and "Standard" in Character and Frame dialog. There should be consistency.
Comment 10 Regina Henschel 2019-11-07 13:27:07 UTC
"Parent style" is good. "Default" is not so good, because the parent need not be the default. Or instead of "Parent style", which can also mean a copy, perhaps "Use Parent".
Comment 11 John 2019-11-08 06:44:47 UTC
> Use Parent

I like it more than "Parent style because it's "verb", not "noun". Thus, it is consistent with "Reset" and "Apply", which are verbs too.
Comment 12 Cor Nouws 2019-11-09 10:40:31 UTC
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #10)
> "Parent style" is good. "Default" is not so good, because the parent need
> not be the default. Or instead of "Parent style", which can also mean a
> copy, perhaps "Use Parent".
Some styles do not have a parent. What about "Original style"?

(Would be handy if for e.g. those buttons there would always appear a tooltip..)
Comment 13 John 2019-11-09 11:25:17 UTC
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #12)
> Some styles do not have a parent. What about "Original style"?

I believe you mean "Default Style".

I think it will be OK that pressing this button will simply does nothing.

Notice that "Standard" button is currently located on all the tabs of the Style window, including the "Organizer" tab, though on "Organizer" tab it does nothing.

In other words, this behavior will not be something new.
Comment 14 Heiko Tietze 2019-11-11 10:31:19 UTC
(In reply to John from comment #13)
> I think it will be OK that pressing this button will simply does nothing.

That requires the button to be disabled. Doing nothing is not an option. 

> Notice that "Standard" button is currently located on all the tabs of the
> Style window, including the "Organizer" tab, though on "Organizer" tab it
> does nothing.

The button is on the footer and thereby not related to the tabs. It applies to the Organizer by changing the relation and detailed description.
Comment 15 sdc.blanco 2019-12-19 18:29:43 UTC
Not finding documentation in the help, and before finding this bug, I made some experiments to figure out how "reset" and "standard" might work. 

Based on that experience, plus reading the discussion, here are a few comments.

1. Use-case for Reset:  Because there is a preview function in the side bar, it is quite practical to (for example) change the font in the default style and see the effects in the different styles.  And still be able to "reset" back to where you started (without having to close and reopen the window).

2.  Note that LO Writer 6.0 Guide (p. 192) says:

"If you want to reset the properties of a child style to that of the parent style, click the Standard button located at the bottom of each Paragraph and Character style dialog."

(I could not see that the guide discussed the "reset" button, but maybe this sentence shows a "natural" expectation that "Standard" resets -- which suggests a value in not using both "reset" and "standard" -- or a need to change the Guide.)

3.  "Undo" is not such a bad alternative for "reset"  for it functions like a Ctrl-Z  (or users will just have to learn what "reset" does -- if is gets documented.)

4.  About "Standard" vs. "Use Parent" 

From a user perspective, I would propose:  use "Standard" if it means "the setting goes back to the "factory setting" (i.e, the way a fresh LO installation would have it.)  

But if the user can change the setting of the "parent" style (if I have understood the implications of comment #10, then I would propose "revert to parent" (or if too long, then "Use Parent" might be ok)

5.  As pointed out in comment #13, these buttons appear for all the tabs in the dialog box.  I have not tested them, but would they apply only to settings in a tab?  or to all the settings across all the tabs?  This might also be relevant in the documentation.
Comment 16 Heiko Tietze 2019-12-23 08:38:08 UTC
(In reply to sdc.blanco from comment #15)
> But if the user can change the setting of the "parent" style (if I have
> understood the implications of comment #10, then I would propose "revert to
> parent" (or if too long, then "Use Parent" might be ok)

Or just "Revert" and some more informative tooltip.
Comment 17 sdc.blanco 2020-01-18 22:52:04 UTC
A relevant suggestion from bug #58132 

"Reset" button should be greyed if there is nothing to reset.
Comment 18 Heiko Tietze 2020-09-15 10:38:38 UTC
*** Bug 136340 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 19 Telesto 2020-09-15 11:18:00 UTC
Standard -> Parent style/ inherited style


About the reset button
Not really opinion about what what to do with the Reset button. Reset button doesn't work as expected in a number of cases (likely more to be discovered)
* Press Apply & followed by reset doesn't work. 
* Press Reset in Area tab doesn't work etc.. 
* Reset in transparency tab doesn't work (after setting area fill & some transparency)
* Table Properties -> Text flow tab & check break & select a style & press Reset


It's slightly bloating the dialog, and confusion with they 'standard' button (which should be renamed anyhow).

So removing the reset button has some advantages :-). Or someone has to fix a number of issues someday.. No strong option on that.
Comment 20 Regina Henschel 2020-09-15 11:50:41 UTC
(In reply to Telesto from comment #19)
> About the reset button
> Not really opinion about what what to do with the Reset button. Reset button
> doesn't work as expected in a number of cases (likely more to be discovered)
> * Press Apply & followed by reset doesn't work.

The purpose of the "Reset" button is to bring the _dialog_ into the state it had, when opening the dialog. It has nothing to do with the document.

I think it is a question for accessibility whether to remove the "Reset" button. The position of the "Reset" button is well known and the same in a lot of dialogs, it is easily accessible with arrow keys. The alternative is to cancel the dialog and reopen it. How easy is the latter for handicapped people?