For german keyboards (other languages are similar / different) some shortcut keys in the Customize dialog (Tools -> Customize -> Keyboard) are not usable, because they have no direct access over one key, but need a combination of keys. Not usable keys for german: - semicolon (;) -> needs Shift+(,) - apostrophe (') -> needs Shift+(#) - opening square bracket ([) -> needs AltGr+([) - closing square bracket (]) -> needs AltGr+(]) Usable (but not implemented) keys for german: - opening angle bracket (<) - number sign (#) - comma (,) - short dash (-) - special characters (ä), (ö), (ü), (ß) This behavior should be corrected in this way, that with german localization the shortcut keys change to german keyboards (most of users using german (other language) localization use german (other language) keyboards too).
UX Team: Please take a look
*** Bug 90464 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
We're replacing our use of the 'ux-advise' component with a keyword: Component -> LibreOffice Add Keyword: needsUXEval [NinjaEdit]
The semicolon is not assigned to a function in 5.3, but square brackets are and that would be in fact not only hard to handle with German keyboards but not accessible at all (ctrl+altgr+8 replaced the selection with [ instead to increase the font size). That's why I would understand the issue as a bug. I think the fair advice is to not use keys other than A..Z and the numbers. That would be the easy reply and result in some missing default shortcuts (increase/decrease in case of the square brackets). Alternatively we could improve the customization and provide different factory settings dependent on the localization. But I wonder if l10n appreciates this idea.
Yes the default shortcuts are for the US keyboard but we also have locale based shortcuts, so if there are particular german shortcuts that arent working, please provide the shortcut and what it should be changed to. Would be good to check other office suites to see what shortcuts they use for the particular commands that are being requested to be changed. See bug 88027 for how we previously fixed similar issues.
*** Bug 82570 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Harald has proposed some new German default shortcuts in attachment 132830 [details], so please comment on them.
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #7) > Harald has proposed some new German default shortcuts in attachment 132830 [details] > [details], so please comment on them. Being not a fan of combinations with function keys. For example, it's heavily used in KDE/Plasma (actually Kwin). For increase/decrease a common shortcut is ctrl++/- (Internet browsers, PDF viewers etc). Execute a macro, adding some unusual break etc. shouldn't be assigned to a shortcut at all (free to customize by users). Same for Calc features. So in my opinion we solve one problem but run into another.
Created attachment 133172 [details] Updated list of shortcut proposals
*** Bug 105267 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8) > > Being not a fan of combinations with function keys. For example, it's > heavily used in KDE/Plasma (actually Kwin). For increase/decrease a common > shortcut is ctrl++/- (Internet browsers, PDF viewers etc). Execute a macro, > adding some unusual break etc. shouldn't be assigned to a shortcut at all > (free to customize by users). Same for Calc features. So in my opinion we > solve one problem but run into another. The intention of the initial report was it, to have the same possibilities respective shortcuts with a German keyboard compared with a Standard US keyboard. Hence new shortcuts are not added, they already exist and can be used with a US keyboard. Furthermore I agree with you that there are deficiencies respective shortcuts: Not all functions are described, some shortcuts are defined for functions which are used seldom and the shortcut list of the help and the user guide differs in some points. And also the problem with different keyboards exists not only with German keyboards. But this all needs time and a major revision. If this is intended in short term, it would be good. If not, to my opinion at least the initial problem with German keyboards should be solved first.
(In reply to Harald Koester from comment #11) > .... to my opinion at least the initial problem with German keyboards should > be solved first. No objection from my side.
I support Harald's proposed shortcut changes and I wish it can be implemented as early as possible. "Writer" also must include Writer master document editor. Both should always behave identical. In German Writer 6.0.0.2 I can see that Ctrl+8 and Ctrl+9 already are assigned to decrease and increase text in addition to Ctrl+[ and Ctrl+]. For Calc's "Fill Single Edit / Einzeln füllen & bearbeiten" (engl. Ctrl+') I suggest Ctrl+0 instead of Ctrl+3, because Ctrl+2 and Ctrl+5 are for line spacing (and maybe Ctrl+3 and Ctrl+4 also will be for line spacing in the future). It's a pity that other keys than from US keyboard aren't available in the Customize dialog. For example I would prefer Ctrl+# as German shortcut keys instead of Ctrl+3/Ctrl+0 as the apostrophe (') in the English pendant Ctrl+' is on the same key as the number sign (#) on a German keyboard. (Is there a bug for that?)
(In reply to Thomas Lendo from comment #13) > In German Writer 6.0.0.2 I can see that Ctrl+8 and Ctrl+9 already are > assigned to decrease and increase text in addition to Ctrl+[ and Ctrl+]. See bug 95635 > It's a pity that other keys than from US keyboard aren't available in the > Customize dialog. For example I would prefer Ctrl+# as German shortcut keys > instead of Ctrl+3/Ctrl+0 as the apostrophe (') in the English pendant Ctrl+' > is on the same key as the number sign (#) on a German keyboard. See bug 115052
*** Bug 117292 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 120608 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
I suggest to extend the solution which was made for other languages in bug 88027 to German. See https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/22792/. That would be an easy hack.
Another example would be what I've done with MOD3 for macOS in https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/52964/. But we are restricted to what is defined in https://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/include/vcl/keycodes.hxx and neither umlauts nor the other characters are.
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bug 129547 attempted to "add Excel shortcuts insert time/date in Calc for German UI" but failed (perhaps because they used COLON_SHIFT_MOD1 instead of POINT_SHIFT_MOD1?) The patch referred to German layout keyboard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout)
*** Bug 155068 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Increasing priority, seeing we have 6 duplicates.
In comment 17 and comment 18 there a few code pointers to other patches. Turning this into an easyhack
I made several improvements for German shortcuts recently. Also # number sign handler is added. Below is the list of changes, fyi: * https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/159687 * https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/158776 * https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/157959
*** Bug 160165 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Hi, just took a look at this and made a simple table to show what we currently have in LO, what MSO does, and what users have suggested, mostly based on the existing shortcuts proposal file. The file uses the terminology from officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/Accelerators.xcu, which is where the keyboard shortcuts are defined. Looking at this list, I think it's best to follow whatever MS is doing when they have an equivalent function, as that's what most users will be familiar with. As such, I propose: Grow (increase font size) -> add Strg + > (in other words, Strg + Umschalt + <), on top of the existing german-specific shortcut Strg + 8 Shrink (decrease font size) -> add Strg + <, on top of the existing german-specific shortcut Strg + 9 Insert current date & time already have similar shortcuts to what MSO has (Strg [ + Umschalt ] + , instead of MSO's Strg [ + Umschalt ] + .) so I think it's best not to move it to avoid breaking user's habits. For the ones that don't seem to have an equivalent in MSO, here are the suggestions that made the most sense to me: Execute macro field: Strg + 6 Insert zero-width space: Strg + 7 Fill single edit: Strg + 3 Mark precedents: Strg + Umschalt + 7 Mark dependents Strg + Umschalt + 6 Select data: Strg + 6 (only in Calc, and Execute macro field is only in Writer, so no overlap) Select array formula: Strg + 7 (only in Calc, and Insert zero-width space is only in Writer, so no overlap) Does this look sensible to German users? I can implement this, but would like feedback before doing this so the implementation is sane.
Created attachment 194688 [details] State of the German keyboard shortcuts recap
For inserting the current date & time, I suggest to use the same shortcuts that MS Excel uses: Date: Strg + . Time: Strg + Shift + . (= Strg + ;) However, the most important thing is that the shortcuts actually work on a German keyboard. As of now, they don't (at least for me).
This is too sprawling and confusing now to be an easy hack, so removing the relevant meta data.