Bug 136961 - Optimize handling of page orientation in Writer (based on landscape page)
Summary: Optimize handling of page orientation in Writer (based on landscape page)
Status: UNCONFIRMED
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Writer (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
Inherited From OOo
Hardware: All All
: medium normal
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2020-09-22 21:23 UTC by Telesto
Modified: 2020-12-23 18:25 UTC (History)
4 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
Example file (8.45 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2020-09-22 21:25 UTC, Telesto
Details

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Description Telesto 2020-09-22 21:23:53 UTC
Description:
The handling of page orientation should be optimized IMHO. It should be build around Default/Landscape page style. So not switching page orientation in a page style.

I also would suggest Page Break with Page Style being centered. And burying the "Next Page Style in organizer" tab as far as possible. 

Also I would like it to be come easier to change the orientation of a single page in the middle of the document (without affecting the rest). 

And Page Style Landscape should inherit the settings of default page style (I think)

Steps to Reproduce:
Instead of me proposing the solution will try/attempt to demonstrate the issue I’m running into changing page orientation (portrait/landscape). This touches the area of pages styles in different facets.

Mission 1: rotating page 2 in a 4 page document
1. Cursor on page 2: Format –> Page Style –> Page tab –> Setting to landscape.
Result: all pages are rotated in default Page Style
2. Cursor on page 2: Right Click Status Bar –> Page Style Landscape
Result: Will rotate every page
3.Cursor on page 2: Sidebar –> Styles –> Page Styles –> Double clicking Landscape
Result: Will rotate every page (not surprising; it’s in fact 2)
4. Cursor on page 1: Format –> Page Style –> Organizer tab –> Next Style. Set it to Landscape
Result: All pages after first page will rotate to landscape.
Cursor on page 2: Format –> Page Style –> Organizer tab –> Next style –> Set it to portrait
Result: Page 3 returns to portrait, page 4 still rotated. Ok so you go to page 4. So this will eventually work. Except: Place cursor after B: Press Backspace twice.. Now is page 3 on page 2 spot (but rotated). And Page 3 (now page 2) should have been portrait
5. Insert -> More Page break -> Manual Page break is out of the option (page break already present). And no I normally don’t go that root either.
6. Cursor on page 2 -> Format -> Paragraph -> Text Flow -> Check with page style -> Select landscape and press OK
Result: Will rotate every page 
7. Go to page 3 Format -> Paragraph -> Text Flow -> Check with page style → Default page style
Result: Page 1 Portrait. Page 2 Landscape Page 3/4: Portrait (fine)
Place cursor after B press backspace twice: Page 3 moves to page 2 and still in portrait mode (fine)
8) Go to page 1 -> Format -> Page Style -> Organizer tab. Next page style is set to Portrait. The actual style on page 2 is landscape [Technically OK. There is room for confusion. Notice the difference from 4; 
9) Go to page 1 -> Format -> Page Style -> Organizer tab. Change it to Landscape.
Scroll down to page 4 → It was portrait now it’s Landscape again (confusing)
10. Go to page 1: Press and hold enter until next page. New page is added in landscape view (without the need of a page break). 
11) Remove few enters, until 1 page is back
Press CTRL+Enter. A new page + page break. Format -> Paragraph → Text Flow → No style (where is rotation coming from?)..  Go to page 1 -> Format -> Page Style -> Organizer tab (Next Style)
12. Place cursor on page 4 (now landscape). Right click the status bar Page Style & select Envelope. I assumed it would affect only Page 4 (because rotated landscape; it does however include page 3, as page 4 is following the style of page 3 (there is no style present in paragraph text flow tab


Mission 2 Rotate only page 1 in 4 page document
1. Cursor on page 2: Format –> Page Style –> Page tab –> Setting to landscape.
Result: all pages are rotated in default Page Style
2. Cursor on page 2: Right Click Status Bar –> Page Style Landscape
Result: Will rotate every page
3.Cursor on page 2: Sidebar –> Styles –> Page Styles –> Double clicking Landscape
Result: Will rotate every page (not surprising; it’s in fact 2)
4. Cursor on page 1: Format –> Page Style –> Organizer tab –> Next Style.
Not possible
5. 5. Insert -> More Page break -> Manual Page break
Not possible
6. Cursor on page 1 -> Format -> Paragraph -> Text Flow -> Check with page style -> Select landscape and press OK
Result: Will rotate every page 
Also slightly counter intuitive.. Page break ‘before’ first page. 
[I’m associating page breaks with blue dotted line]
7. Go to page 2 Format -> Paragraph -> Text Flow -> Check with page style → Default page style
Result: Page 1 Landscape. Page 2-4: Portrait (fine)
Undo
Format → Page Style → Next Page Style → Portrait (also fine; but no should be used)
Place cursor after B press backspace twice: Page 3 moves to page 2  and I’m losing portrait mode. Yes, fits the model 
8. Cursor on page 2: Format –> Page Style –> Organizer tab –> Next Style Landscape
Result: C and D in landscape mode. Page Style of page 2 being default page style
9. Cursor on page 3. Right Click Status bar → Choose Portrait.. Result: bounces off (no effect)
10. Place cursor on page 2. Right click status bar page style & select envelope. 
Result page 2 changes (expected). However page 3/4 change to. I did set the next style to landscape mode..

11. Place the cursor on page 1. 
12. Format → Page Styles → Page tab → Switch Orientation from Landscape to portrait. 
Result: All pages with landscape style end up in portrait (obviously). But worse, we have landscape style doing portrait mode. Yes, you could have know.. the dialog shows the name of the style. True.
13. View → User Interface → Tabbed. Go to Layout → Orientation → Page orientation and change it to landscape and back to portrait. 


Next topic (follow up on condition after step 9 mission 2)
1. Go to page 2: Replace B with “Hello World”
2. Press Enter 3 after “World
3. Select World cut and paste it at the second line -> Text on new page. Lets say this is expected, because a style attached to the paragraph (dislike this tough). Format → Paragraph → Text Flow
4. Go to page 3.   Format → Paragraph → Text Flow (not style set)
Replace C with Hello World.
5. Press Enter 3 after “World”
6. Copy World and paste it at line 2. OK again a new page is added (where is this coming from.. o yes, next style organizer tab?


Seeing all those effects isolated might make sense, but if you mix it you start losing track. So it's fine to state that something works perfectly fine in 'isolated' context and written out in nice steps etc. But if you have a document in front of you, or being Benjamin this is rather hard. 

And I'm only talking about portrait/landscape here.. Lets create a document with 15 different page styles. Different margins, page sizes etc. 

And ever tried to export ODT to DOCX (with page styles stuff) and opened it again (some document, but the existing page style stuff is now a bit different)

Actual Results:
So what are the problems.
1. Plenty of page rotation are available. However there is only one method which delivers.
2. Page style being hidden under paragraph settings Text Flow. If you have used MSO you will like use Format -> Page Styles → Page tab (which doesn’t deliver). Also ‘paragraph style isn’t to most obvious place to look.
3. The Next Page style in organizer tab vs Text Flow Page style sometimes not working as expected
2. Organizer tab next page style not being the right way (but appears to deliver)
3. Hard to set a style on the first page. There is only one way (not problematic as such). 
4. The next page style affected even if page breaks are in between (with different styles set).
5. The Tabbed toolbar using changing page style orientation (which can even result in landscape style being portrait). So doesn’t deliver most desired result. And can make it even make more confusing
6. Changing page style in Text Flow tab will affect all of the following pages (including those separated by page break), as long as there is no page style explicitly set. A solution would be to set explicitly add the ‘with page style’ for the next page break (downwards, with the ‘old’ style); [but really didn’t think this through]
7. Page Styles are bit of a thing in DOCX export; So not sure what’s required here to get a decent export result (Justin has tried to teach me; but I’m slightly forgetful)  
8. Make it visible which page breaks (at paragraph Text flow tab do have explicit page style set (with page style) and which page breaks are without page style. 

The major 'downside' of the whole exercise is of course that landscape page isn't limited to orientation. But does include the whole style. Or should landscape style be child of default page style. So it would inherited to margins/ background and all other settings. This isn't the case either as far I know

Expected Results:
Page rotation should based on page styles as far as possible. And it should be really accessible. The options must be buried deep out of sight. So making it as easy as possible for 'Benjamin' [typology without description] to archive his goal without being distracted to much.

And ideally make it easy to rotate a page somewhere in between, without affecting the rest [but might be personal preference]

I hope someone sees the light how the unwind this a bit. They current implementation isn't really user friendly; pretty complicated. 

And in advance; LibreOffice more or less build around styles. So please don't say it's pretty normal to change page orientation in 'Default Page Style' as this simply not working if you want 'two' different page orientations. And yes, also Benjamin has to deal with that. 


Reproducible: Always


User Profile Reset: No



Additional Info:
Version: 7.1.0.0.alpha0+ (x64)
Build ID: abcc4eb907661e07ad850ccce7eb06f129da4286
CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 6.3 Build 9600; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL: win
Locale: nl-NL (nl_NL); UI: en-US
Calc: CL
Comment 1 Telesto 2020-09-22 21:25:03 UTC
Created attachment 165782 [details]
Example file
Comment 2 Telesto 2020-09-22 21:29:36 UTC
My attempt to make clear something must be done to make rotating page easier. However scope is larger.. as it's also about working with page styles

I hope somebody: acknowledges some struggles I have.. and comes up with some proposals to make this more streamlined (easier to work with)
Comment 3 Heiko Tietze 2020-09-23 07:16:00 UTC
(In reply to Telesto from comment #0)
> The handling of page orientation ... should be build around Default/Landscape 
>  page style. So not switching page orientation in a page style.

You cripple the format by moving orientation out of the game. Keep in mind first/title page followed by text or left/right page sequences. Those use cases are very common.

Besides, we are "limited" to the open document format. Your documents have to be pixel-perfect across platforms and applications.

> Mission 1: rotating page 2 in a 4 page document

I admit that rotating a single page is a tough thing for Benjamin. But let's thing about a shortcut for him, rather than changing the flexible and powerful page style. It includes to find and change first paragraph by adding a break before with a new page style and to find the last paragraph and add a break with default PS after (has to be the first of the next page actually). This sounds feasible and could be extended to "selected pages" so p2..4 can be "directly formatted" as landscape. Mike, what do you think?
Comment 4 Telesto 2020-09-24 09:31:19 UTC
And would also love to now if
Mission 1 step 9

and
Mission 2 step 9

being (separate) bugs or not. I have the impression it's wrong.
Comment 5 Telesto 2020-09-27 10:34:45 UTC
FWIW.. the whole See also list (all created by me; yes, some would say spam) which are more or less part of the topic. As demonstrating of the 'problem'; confusion/ the current implementation is created in different settings/contexts.

Putting everything comment 0 creates a long read. And hard to follow too. And those topics can be individualized to some extend, but are at the same time entangled (if you ask me)
Comment 6 Heiko Tietze 2020-10-12 13:52:10 UTC
I support the idea of a shortcut to toggle the orientation of the current page resp. the selected pages. It would be a UNO command that adds a page break before and after and applies a new page style / direct formatting to this section.

Suggest to change the summary accordingly.
Comment 7 Telesto 2020-10-12 14:31:55 UTC
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #6)
> I support the idea of a shortcut to toggle the orientation of the current
> page resp. the selected pages. It would be a UNO command that adds a page
> break before and after and applies a new page style / direct formatting to
> this section.
> 
> Suggest to change the summary accordingly.

Not really an objection to that suggestion. As it would mitigate part of the issue described.  

However this not addressing the whole problem I see. I'm m still the opinion of a dialog design flaw being present. Which I attempted to illustrate with the page orientation approach.

The problem being (a) multiple ways of configuring page styles (or orientation) (b) the dialog for apply styles being positioned at unexpected (or less natural) place.  

If I did understand & remember the comment of Justin correctly, The organizer Next Style thing being a compatibility option (which should be used to much). However it has quite a prominent place.

In addition, if I want to manage - read change - my page style I tend to look into the Page Style dialog (with the cursor on the page in question). Assuming I can change the active page style.

I do get a dialog about page style configuration (but not setting a page style). Activating a page style (other then using organizer tab) must be done in the paragraph style dialog text flow tab. And setting page style in a paragraph style dialog still doesn't make sense to me. Simply weird having to look under paragraph for managing page styles.
Yes, technically it's attached to the first paragraph of a page - so in correct in that sense. But this is really not intuitive user orientated approach. You need to 'learn and remember' a counter-intuitive method; 

It might be solved by being able to set page style in the page style dialog too (n some way) Similar way to the paragraph). And maybe hiding they next style a bit (if the assumption of being of no 'use' - only compatibility thing - being correct. As this as feature people aren't 'supposed to' use actively.

You should be able to set the page style of a page in the Page Style dialog. As this is what the name (also) implies. If it's up to me :-). Even if the page style is actually connected to the paragraph.