Bug 117463 - Create a Dialog that shows up on first boot of Writer/Calc/Impress for the user to pick its default UI
Summary: Create a Dialog that shows up on first boot of Writer/Calc/Impress for the us...
Status: REOPENED
Alias: None
Product: LibreOffice
Classification: Unclassified
Component: UI (show other bugs)
Version:
(earliest affected)
6.1.0.0.alpha1+
Hardware: All All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: Not Assigned
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
: 133151 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks: Notebookbar
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2018-05-06 19:07 UTC by Pedro
Modified: 2020-07-14 14:20 UTC (History)
11 users (show)

See Also:
Crash report or crash signature:


Attachments
Proposal 1: Mock-up of a LO UI picker dialog (172.01 KB, image/png)
2018-05-06 19:07 UTC, Pedro
Details
Softmaker Office UI Picker dialog box (79.88 KB, image/jpeg)
2018-05-06 19:08 UTC, Pedro
Details
WPS UI picker dialog (55.72 KB, image/png)
2018-05-06 19:08 UTC, Pedro
Details
WPS UI picker dialog (51.09 KB, image/png)
2018-05-06 19:09 UTC, Pedro
Details
Interface layout Ubuntu MATE (94.77 KB, image/png)
2020-06-08 10:49 UTC, John Mills
Details
Softmaker Office User Interface dialogue (113.63 KB, image/png)
2020-06-08 10:50 UTC, John Mills
Details

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Description Pedro 2018-05-06 19:07:37 UTC
Created attachment 141939 [details]
Proposal 1: Mock-up of a LO UI picker dialog

Considering that currently on the 6.1dev build, the Notebookbar is no longer experimental and there are several UI options to choose from it would be good to draw attention of the users to the different UI options they can choose from in LibreOffice.

There are other Office suites that allow users to pick between mulitple UIs and they make a better job of drawing user's attention to those UIs: they offer dialog boxes where the user can preview the different UI options.

Softmaker Office prompts a dialog box the first time a user starts-up the software to make the user pick the UI of its preference. 

WPS Office, on the other hand, has a button close to the minimize, maximize and close buttons that allows the user to change the UI.

I propose that LO should prompt a dialog box at the first start-up after installation of each module with multiple UIs (Writer, Calc and Impress currently), to allow the user to easily change the UI without having to dig down into menus just like Softmaker and WPS Office do. Of course, that by doing this only polished UIs should be available in this dialog box at the beginning.
Comment 1 Pedro 2018-05-06 19:08:11 UTC
Created attachment 141940 [details]
Softmaker Office UI Picker dialog box
Comment 2 Pedro 2018-05-06 19:08:34 UTC
Created attachment 141941 [details]
WPS UI picker dialog
Comment 3 Pedro 2018-05-06 19:09:57 UTC
Created attachment 141942 [details]
WPS UI picker dialog
Comment 4 V Stuart Foote 2018-05-06 21:31:13 UTC
(In reply to Pedro from comment #0)
> 
> Considering that currently on the 6.1dev build, the Notebookbar is no longer
> experimental and there are several UI options to choose from it would be
> good to draw attention of the users to the different UI options they can
> choose from in LibreOffice.
> 

No, it is not out of Experimental mode...

> ...
> I propose that LO should prompt a dialog box at the first start-up after
> installation of each module with multiple UIs (Writer, Calc and Impress
> currently), to allow the user to easily change the UI without having to dig
> down into menus just like Softmaker and WPS Office do. Of course, that by
> doing this only polished UIs should be available in this dialog box at the
> beginning.

Not a fan. With work for bug 115131 we now have one combined menu action to directly select-- View -> User Interface--seems adequate. Much as with see also bug 102070 -- this type of in your face "guidance" for users is not effective marketing or UX.

IHMO, see no reason for overhead of maintaining a Dialog to pick UI's on initial profile setup and lots of opportunity for muddled profiles.

IMHO => WONTFIX
Comment 5 Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) 2018-05-07 11:01:03 UTC
Before we can prominently promote the Notebookbar, we need to implement the missing features which are currently only in the classic toolbar.

Would also say wontfix, or at least blocked on those.
Comment 6 Pedro 2018-05-07 13:54:07 UTC
This doesn't have to be something to be developed for 6.1.
In fact, considering that the feature freeze is coming on May 21st I don't think that's possible. I just want this to be open for discussion and potential development for 6.2.
Comment 7 Xavier Van Wijmeersch 2018-05-07 17:03:33 UTC
Not a fan at all. Agree with WONTFIX
Comment 8 Heiko Tietze 2018-05-07 17:23:29 UTC
I'm also in favor of more subtle solutions. The Notebookbar is not a aesthetically thing, at least not primarily, where you decide once how the app looks like but a way to accommodate to the use scenario. Writing a love letter requires other functions then a thesis, for example.  And we make it easy to switch with the prominent menu entry.

Nevertheless, interesting enhancement idea if we think about the larger picture.
Comment 9 Heiko Tietze 2020-05-19 04:04:28 UTC
*** Bug 133151 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 10 V Stuart Foote 2020-05-19 15:18:55 UTC Comment hidden (obsolete)
Comment 11 Pedro 2020-05-19 15:22:03 UTC
Not sure if the discussion should be in this bug or in 133151. You guys decide which one to close.
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133151

I seriously disagree that this is closed.
The last time this was discussed was two years ago which is plenty of time.
Furthermore, most of the issues raised on that bug are already surpassed. 
Those issues were:
1 - The alternative UIs were still experimental so that discussion was premature by Stuart V Foote.
2 - Need to implement the missing features which are currently only in the classic toolbar by Samuel Mehrbrodt.

Those two issues don't apply anymore so this discussion should be had now.
I agree with kdek and Timur that a dialog should be done to point the user to select the preferred UI. 
IMO, that would be much more useful than having a "tip of the day" dialog. Or simply hardcode the first "tip of the day" dialog after an installation to make the user select a UI, or at least point the user to where to select the UI.
Comment 12 V Stuart Foote 2020-05-19 15:52:50 UTC
*** Bug 133151 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 13 V Stuart Foote 2020-05-19 15:59:53 UTC
MUFFIN enhancements provide wonderful alternative UI configurations, but its usage can not be made self documenting--better left to external help & documentation delivered in more reasonable context.  In your face dialog pop-ups and warning bar entries would be insufficient and annoying.

And frankly we do not need guided usage within the GUI, what's nex--think of "Clippy" for MSO, or "Microsoft Bob"--no thanks!  Stick to functional documentation, external to the UI.

IMHO => remains a WF, with tasks against documentation.
Comment 14 V Stuart Foote 2020-05-19 16:29:51 UTC
(In reply to Pedro from comment #11)
> Not sure if the discussion should be in this bug or in 133151. You guys
> decide which one to close.
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133151
>

Closed that one again Duplicate.
 
> I seriously disagree that this is closed.
> The last time this was discussed was two years ago which is plenty of time.
> Furthermore, most of the issues raised on that bug are already surpassed. 
> ...

But you've ignored the primary reason this was moved to => WF 

From comment 4 here:

<snip>

Not a fan. With work for bug 115131 we now have one combined menu action to directly select-- View -> User Interface--seems adequate. Much as with see also bug 102070 -- this type of in your face "guidance" for users is not effective marketing or UX.

IHMO, see no reason for overhead of maintaining a Dialog to pick UI's on initial profile setup and lots of opportunity for muddled profiles.
</snip>

In other words we gain nothing/offer nothing to the user, and cause a whole lot of dev/maintenance work for a questionable dialog.
Comment 15 Rizal Muttaqin 2020-05-20 10:34:10 UTC
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #14)
> -- View -> User Interface--seems adequate. Much as with see
> also bug 102070 -- this type of in your face "guidance" for users is not
> effective marketing or UX.
>
From what I see in many comments/discussions in many places in the Internet, many people does not aware this options while they complains no Ribbon UI in LibO.

> IHMO, see no reason for overhead of maintaining a Dialog to pick UI's on
> initial profile setup and lots of opportunity for muddled profiles.
> </snip>
> 

Honestly I dont get it what is the point of maintanaibility, we can say harshly many LibO elements are not maintained. We can count broken function here and there and no dev has interest to fix them (see G Drive for example which many user expected to use or HTML export from Impress/Draw that nobody use).

> In other words we gain nothing/offer nothing to the user, and cause a whole
> lot of dev/maintenance work for a questionable dialog.

This dialog would be a more added value to tell user about what we have in the UI/UX far away then let me say (with all due respect to the creator) Tips of the Day dialog.

So my take is 1000+ to this feature request.
Comment 16 V Stuart Foote 2020-05-20 13:17:55 UTC
(In reply to Rizal Muttaqin from comment #15)

> From what I see in many comments/discussions in many places in the Internet,
> many people does not aware this options while they complains no Ribbon UI in
> LibO.
> 

Please, we do not have a Ribbon UI and we never will, we have MUFFIN and one of its features is the 'Notebook Bar' in one of its UI implementations. And we expect/hope to additional MUFFIN function -- notably tabbed documents (bug 33173) and a multi-document interface (MDI) (bug 37134), with our existing "New Window" multi-window document view getting some love, and a mode for better side-by-side.

> 
> Honestly I dont get it what is the point of maintanaibility, we can say
> harshly many LibO elements are not maintained. We can count broken function
> here and there and no dev has interest to fix them (see G Drive for example
> which many user expected to use or HTML export from Impress/Draw that nobody
> use).
> 

That is part of my concern, features get taken to a certain point and development stalls, or the feature just rots away--e.g. review the history for the 'Navigation Toolbar' (bug 115817 - GSoC 2009). Or the 'Visual Editor' mode of the sm Math module (bug 88744 - GSoC 2010).  How would you write internal UI to guide a user to configure those features?

> This dialog would be a more added value to tell user about what we have in
> the UI/UX far away then let me say (with all due respect to the creator)
> Tips of the Day dialog.

Not really, a pop-up dialog or entries on the Warning bar can never be an adequate substitute for documenting the rich set of UI features in an active (on-line or local) contextual help system. Supplemented by TDF's well authored Guide books and topic specific guides, e.g. Bruce Byfields 'Designing with LibreOffice'. 

Restoring the <ahelp> tag function to the "New Help" (bug 118148) would allow targeted/contextual tip based help. We do not "need" a bloated dialog/wizard for  guided configuration of the UI.

> 
> So my take is 1000+ to this feature request.

No sorry, it just does not fit/belong in the UI.
Comment 17 V Stuart Foote 2020-05-20 14:27:12 UTC
Sorry, looks like the UX-advise ML was not added back when reopened.
Comment 18 Heiko Tietze 2020-06-04 12:53:26 UTC
* 2x con, 1x pro so far

* if we introduce another NB, ideally per extension, it won't show up on this welcome dialog
* the UI choice is the least important for new users
* if we need to advertise per image we should consider a tab in tools > options > view (and remove the menu option) plus have thumbnails with the envisioned extensions

Resolving as WF.
Comment 19 Pedro 2020-06-08 10:12:17 UTC
As I mentioned. I am also in favor of this besides Rizal.
So it is 2 against 2. Furthermore, it's bad to decide about closing bugs in meetings that not everyone can attend.
Comment 20 John Mills 2020-06-08 10:47:42 UTC
Hello all,

I would respectively disagree with Heiko Tietze on this point, I think the most important thing that developers can do is make their users feel comfortable with the software as presented.

LibreOffice ships with an interface currently that is very functional but not intuitive to Microsoft Office users that have been to school or university in the last 13 years. Also for business users which by all accounts has greater than 90% of the office suite market worldwide.

Please understand that this is not an attack on the current interface in anyway but simply provides a method to highlight the wonderful features found in LibreOffice. You are empowering your users by providing information to them to make an informed decision and this is a positive thing.


An example where this has been done well and is in the end users benefit is with Ubuntu MATE. The first run wizard highlights features and allows the end user to make an informed choice on their interface paradigm. I am attaching a screenshot on how this could possible work.

https://ubuntu-mate.org/blog/ubuntu-mate-focal-fossa-release-notes/

Softmaker office provides a good dialogue for choice. It would be helpful to to the same.

https://www.softmaker.com/en/blog/softmaker-office/softmaker-office-2018-whats-new-part-1 (Also screenshot attached)

Something similar also exists in Kingsoft office.

By allowing this initial selection on first run you would also gain telemetry information on user choice allowing you to concentrate your development efforts on the most popular interface. 

Thank you and very best regards,

John Mills
Comment 21 John Mills 2020-06-08 10:49:40 UTC
Created attachment 161758 [details]
Interface layout Ubuntu MATE

Interface Layout Ubuntu MATE
Comment 22 John Mills 2020-06-08 10:50:58 UTC
Created attachment 161759 [details]
Softmaker Office User Interface dialogue

Softmaker Office User Interface dialogue choice
Comment 23 Heiko Tietze 2020-06-08 10:55:05 UTC
Feel free to reopen and discuss - absolutely welcome- but please don't add UX keyword again after a decision has been done. It's rather contra-productive to have the keyword since it means this request needs to be discussed. And in my opinion we should keep the number of open discussions as low as possible.
Comment 24 John Mills 2020-06-08 11:32:57 UTC
@Heiko, thank you. As a very committed user and advocate of LibreOffice I sincerely believe that this option will aid in the adoption of LibreOffice. In my anecdotal experiences the number one complaint I hear about the office suite is the dated nature of the interface. 

Providing an initial dialogue for the already available interfaces will help those inexperienced users considerably. That is positive and a user focused feature to be commended. 

This dialogue really would be useful and help highlight the amazing features of LibreOffice that are likely never explored. You are also empowering your users. This is considerably more useful than a daily tip. And remember it is a once only dialogue (on initial start) and would also explain that the user could change to another interface if they weren't satisfied. I would envision this working like in the screenshot of Ubuntu MATE attached to this bug.
Comment 25 andreas_k 2020-07-14 14:20:42 UTC
I don't want to open the discussion again. 

Notebookbar implementations are part of the LibreOffice Community and design work, so I'm pro show it to the users. In addition after years of hide the notebookbar layouts behind an easy to use dropdown menu, no developer was found it's ok to push it more in front of the user and maybe we found an developer.

+1 to have an initial dialog for choose.