Created attachment 44709 [details] Screenshot of character formatting with Kallos ITC I'm using Kallos ITC family and in this family six fonts exists: Kallos ITC Book Kallos ITC Book Italic Kallos ITC Medium Kallos ITC Medium Italic Kallos ITC Bold Kallos ITC Bold Italic Linux shows the fonts as: user12@pc:~$ fc-list | grep Kallos Kallos ITC:style=Bold Kallos ITC:style=Book Kallos ITC:style=Medium Kallos ITC:style=Bold Italic Kallos ITC:style=Medium Italic Kallos ITC:style=Book Italic 1) LibreOffice shows Kallos ITC Medium as Regular in font selection (picture)! Strange! 2) If i create a textdocument with a text formatted as Kallos ITC Medium and Kallos ITC Medium italic and reopens in LibreOffice the charcater settings are reset to Kallos ITC Book LibreOffice does not remmber the font settings. Seems to be the same as openoffice bug from 2007: http://openoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=82986
Font pack can be send to tester for testing only if desired.
Bugfix is important. LibreOffice should support komplex font families and handle the character formatting with thes fonts. It would be useless for professionell office work with missing font support.
Same problem in 3.3.2
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[This is an automated message.] This bug was filed before the changes to Bugzilla on 2011-10-16. Thus it started right out as NEW without ever being explicitly confirmed. The bug is changed to state NEEDINFO for this reason. To move this bug from NEEDINFO back to NEW please check if the bug still persists with the 3.5.0 beta1 or beta2 prereleases. Details on how to test the 3.5.0 beta1 can be found at: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugHunting_Session_3.5.0.-1 more detail on this bulk operation: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/RFC-Operation-Spamzilla-tp3607474p3607474.html
Bug still exists in: LOdev 3.5.0beta2 Build-ID: c3bcb31-760cc4d-f39cf3d-1b2857e-60db978 Tested on Ubuntu 11.04 x64
Problem exists on LibreOffice 3.5.2.2 Build-ID: 281b639-6baa1d3-ef66a77-d866f25-f36d45f Linux KUbuntu 11.04 x64
I can verify with another ITC OpenType font: I have _many_ ITC fonts on my Ubuntu/Debian system (way too many to list here), and for the most part I can select them in LO (3.5.3.2)[1]. For example, if I select an ITC .otf font galliard: $ locate galliard /home/<user>/.fonts/galliard-black.otf /home/<user>/.fonts/galliard-blackitalic.otf /home/<user>/.fonts/galliard-bold.otf /home/<user>/.fonts/galliard-bolditalic.otf /home/<user>/.fonts/galliard-italic.otf /home/<user>/.fonts/galliard-roman.otf /home/<user>/.fonts/galliard-ultra.otf /home/<user>/.fonts/galliard-ultraitalic.otf As you can see, the only galliard fonts on this system are .otf. In LO 3.5 (via Format|Character) I can select ITC Galliard: Ultra UltraItalic Roman Italic Bold Bold Italic Black Ultra Italic Black Italic I made a file with each font selection, took a screenshot & added it to the file, saved the file, closed LO and reopened LO and the file. Before saving I noticed that the bolding seemed to be backwards (with bold selected the font appears normal, with bold unselected from LO icon the font appears bold). After saving I noticed (in addition to the bolding) when checking Format|Charater: - Italic changed UltraItalic - Roman changed to Ultra It is repeatable & I'll add a pdf and odt of the document. [1] LibreOffice 3.5.3.2 Build ID: 235ab8a-3802056-4a8fed3-2d66ea8-e241b8
Created attachment 62116 [details] PDF of galliard test document
Created attachment 62117 [details] ODT of galliard test document.
Problem still exists in LibreOffice 3.6.1.2 with Linux Debian 6 x64
Forgot information about sys for previous comment: LibreOffice 3.6.1.2 Build ID e29a214 KDE 4.8.4 Debian 6.06
My problem with font described in 1) and 2) still exists in: Libreoffice Version 3.6.5.2 (Build ID: 5b93205) Debian 6 x64, KDE 4.8.4 1) Kallos ITC Bold is displayed as Bold Kallos ITC Medium is displayed as Standard 2) Formatting for Kallos ITC Medium is reset to Kallos ITC Book
Bug confirmed for Libreoffice 4.1.5.3 Build-ID: 1c1366bba2ba2b554cd2ca4d87c06da81c05d24 Debian 7.2 x64, KDE 4.8.4
Bug mentioned in https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35538#c13 confirmed for LbreOffice 4.2.4.2 Build-ID: 63150712c6d317d27ce2db16eb94c2f3d7b699f8 on Debian 7.5 x64 KDE
Created attachment 101641 [details] PDF of with Kallos formatted ODT (expected result) Formatted with Kallos ITC as it should really be after opening ODT with LibreOffice
Created attachment 101642 [details] PDF of with Kallos formatted ODT (real result) This PDF shows that LibreOffice lost format of text KallosITCMedium after reopening ODT
Confirmed for Libreoffice Version: 4.2.6.3 Build-ID: 3fd416d4c6db7d3204c17ce57a1d70f6e531ee21 on Debian 7.7 x64 with KDE 4.8.4
Same problem of loosing formatting after saving and reopening document. LibreOffice 4.3.3.2 Build-ID: 430m0(Build:2) KDE 4.14.2 on Debian 7 Testing
I have been experiencing what I believe to be the same problem described in this bug with LibreOffice versions 4.4.6.3 and 5.0.3.2.
** Please read this message in its entirety before responding ** To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today, LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed bugs which have not been touched for over a year. There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in getting confirmation that the bug is still present. If you have time, please do the following: Test to see if the bug is still present on a currently supported version of LibreOffice (5.1.6 or 5.2.3 https://www.libreoffice.org/download/ If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the version of LibreOffice and your operating system, and any changes you see in the bug behavior If the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a short comment that includes your version of LibreOffice and Operating System Please DO NOT Update the version field Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker) Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular meaning that is not appropriate in this case) If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a REGRESSION. To do so: 1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your bug pertains to a feature added after 3.3) http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/ 2. Test your bug 3. Leave a comment with your results. 4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to "inherited from OOo"; 4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add "regression" to keyword Feel free to come ask questions or to say hello in our QA chat: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=libreoffice-qa Thank you for helping us make LibreOffice even better for everyone! Warm Regards, QA Team MassPing-UntouchedBug-20161108
Confirmed for Libreoffice 5.2 x64 Version: 5.2.3.1 Build-ID: 1:5.2.3~rc1-4~bpo8+1 Debian 8.6 x64 KDE 4.14.2
Confirmed for Libreoffice 4.3 Version: 4.3.3.2 Build ID: 430m0(Build:2) Debian 8.6 x64 KDE 4.14.2
@Khaled is this something that touches your work on fonts/rendering, maybe? Thanks! Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Libnreoffice Writer (3.x, 4.x, 5.x) on Linux looses font formt after repening document Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 19:49:19 +0100 From: GwenDragon <info@gwendragon.de> To: Cor Nouws <oolst@nouenoff.nl> Hello Cor, On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, at 13:23:34 [GMT +0100] (which was 13:23 where I live) Cor wrote: > Now that I'm writing this: there is some changes ongoing in font > handling at the moment. Can you try a fresh daily build maybe? > http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/ Unfortunately the daily 5.3 dev build did not find the Type 1 fonts. The fonts are not shown in fonts list/dropdown.
Created attachment 128639 [details] Screen recording (GIF) showing loss of font format with font family Kallos Shows that the previous set font style of Kallos ITC Medium is reset after saving and reopening document.
This might be related to the fact that we don’t handle fonts that has more than four styles R/B/I/BI quite well. But that is related to font selection not layout.
Indeed, LibreOffice doesn't handle fonts that has more than four styles R/B/I/BI quite well. I don't know for Linux, but Windows and macOS (since LO 4.1) use platform dependent handling. LibreOffice on Windows use traditional GDI handling, LibreOffice on macOS use CoreText (and, probably, incorrectly, as the styles names are localised). See my Bug 69881 for LibreOffice 4.1, still valid for 5.3. And the numerous duplicates of Bug 69254.
Setting Assignee back to default. Please assign it back to yourself if you're still working on this issue
*** Bug 72944 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 69254 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 101905 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 89242 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 79726 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 69881 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 68889 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 72938 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 100835 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 87288 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 98596 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 105298 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 83006 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 93157 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 95816 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Even if this problem apparently is present on all platforms, the actual font enumeration code is still platform-specific, so separate fixes might well be needed for macOS, Windows, and Linux.
The font enumeration and UI aspect is just one part of the issue. What apparently hasn't been taken into consideration at all in the comments above is how to handle the "extra" styles in the document formats, in a backward-compatible way, so that the document wouldn't break horribly if opened in another application reading the same format, or in an older version of LibreOffice. Far from trivial.
But the documents are already "breaking horribly" because of platform-specific handling…
Actually, I take my previous comment back. It was pointed out to me that even if the toolbar just has a typeface selector and the B and I buttons, in the right-click:Character...:Font dialog there is a separate "Style" selector (sadly called "Typeface" on the Mac), and with that one can select any of the styles the typeface is available in. For instance, for the Overpass typeface, "Thin Italic". See my further comments in https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254#c32
I organized the bugs this way: Bug 35538 (this bug) blocked by: bug 69254 (CoreText bugs - Mac) bug 72944 (future DirectWrite implementation - Windows) bug 98596 (FontConfig bugs - Linux) bug 105298 (cross-platform bugs) Bug 35538 (this bug) blocking: bug 103596 (future Variable Fonts implementation)
*** Bug 112857 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 119116 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Created attachment 153410 [details] Screenshot of Style Editor showing the wrong font variant name This dialogue belongs to the Heading 2 style, but that is probably unimportant
LibreOffice 6.2.5.2, Ubuntu Linux 19.04: After adding the Futura font to my system and refreshing the font cache, only the general font name 'Futura' appears in the font selection dropdown in the main UI of Writer. Not the variant weights (see below) A .docx-file featuring the Medium font weight, seems to convert the sections using the Medium variant to the Condensed ExtraBold variant. I have not tested what happens if another File Format is used to save the file. When I open the style editor to edit the Heading 2 style, I do see the weights, but one of the variants has the wrong name. Variants in Font: - Medium - Condensed Medium - Condensed ExtraBold - Italic Variants shown in Style Editor (see screenshot) - Condensed Medium - 中黑 - Condensed ExtraBold - Italic Note that my default language is English The two Chinese characters are Zhong Hei (middle black), which might translate to 'Medium Black'. I'm no expert in Chinese, so I can only take a guess. Thank you in advance for fixing this annoying bug.
(In reply to Thomas Linard from comment #27) > Indeed, LibreOffice doesn't handle fonts that has more than four styles > R/B/I/BI quite well. I don't know for Linux, but Windows and macOS (since LO > 4.1) use platform dependent handling. > LibreOffice on Windows use traditional GDI handling, LibreOffice on macOS > use CoreText (and, probably, incorrectly, as the styles names are > localised). See my Bug 69881 for LibreOffice 4.1, still valid for 5.3. And > the numerous duplicates of Bug 69254. Windows GDI can handle only 4 styles: R/B/I/BI Additionally, there are some fonts has limited use of style-linking, for example, Source Han Sans has only Regular and Bold weights are style-linked, other weights will appearing in the font menu. See: https://github.com/adobe-fonts/source-han-sans/blob/release/SourceHanSansReadMe.pdf
Confirming a very similar issue on a fresh install Ubuntu 20.04 with LibreOffice Writer v6.4.3.2 from the Ubuntu repository. Issue ===== OTF font weights "Medium", "Medium Italic", "Mediumxxxxyyyyzzzz" are not selectable in LibreOffice v6.4.3.2. Those fonts have to be renamed "-Medium", "-Medium Italic", "-Mediumxxxxyyyyzzzz" to show up as selectable weights. Proposed Discussion =================== According to https://www.webtype.com/info/articles/fonts-weights/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/os2#usweightclass Section 2.3 Weight in https://monotype.github.io/panose/pan2.htm the following commonly appearing font weights should at least be able to be detected and shown as selectable by LibreOffice Writer font selector: Thin Very Light Extra Light Ultra Light Light Semi Light Book Demi Normal Regular Medium Semibold Demibold Bold Heavy Black Extra Bold Extra Black Fat Poster Ultra Black Nord Test case ========= Create a random test font with FontForge. Fill the font with some glyphs like A-Z,a-z for testing. In the "Font Info..." dialog (Ctrl+Shift+F) select "TTF Names" table and set entry "Styles (Subfamily)" = "Medium" and entry "Preferred Styles" = "Medium" Create OTF font (test.otf) with FontForge. Install the new test font (test.otf) in $HOME/.local/share/fonts/ Restart LibreOffice Writer so it detects the new font. Type some text, select it, right-click, select "Character..." and change the font to your new font with font weight "Medium". "Medium" will not appear in the list of selectable font weights. Result ====== If an OTF font's TTF Name table entry "Styles (Subfamily)" or "Preferred Styles" has a string starting with "Medium", LibreOffice Writer will not display it as selectable font weight in the font selection dialog. It does not matter if you set the "Styles (Subfamily)" = "Mediumxyz" and "Preferred Styles" = "Mediumxyz". Strings like "Medium Italics" wont show up either. Workaround ========== With FontForge: In the "Font Info..." dialog (Ctrl+Shift+F) select "TTF Names" table Set entry "Styles (Subfamily)" = "-Medium" and entry "Preferred Styles" = "-Medium" Regenerate the test font (test.otf) with FontForge. Install/overwrite the new test font (test.otf) in $HOME/.local/share/fonts/ Restart LibreOffice Writer so it detects the new font. Type some text, select it, right-click, select "Character..." and change the font to your new font with font weight "-Medium". "-Medium" will now appear in the list of selectable font weights.
Kallos ITC Book Kallos ITC Book Italic Kallos ITC Medium Kallos ITC Medium Italic Kallos ITC Bold Kallos ITC Bold Italic Linux shows the fonts as: user12@pc:~$ https://goo.gl/2DqXGj fc-list | grep Kallos Kallos ITC:style=Bold Kallos ITC:style=Book Kallos ITC:style=Medium Kallos ITC:style=Bold Italic Kallos ITC:style=Medium Italic Kallos ITC:style=Book Italic
*** Bug 143013 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 144868 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Issue still exists 7.3.3.2 Windows and 7.3.1.3 Linux. Have trouble with an other font "ITC Souvenir Std".
This is basically a Windows/MS Office compatibility issue. First, LibreOffice is can fonts with more than 4 styles (though it can be improved). However, GDI and MS Office can’t. On Windows we use GDI to get font family and style, and it can only give is families with max of 4 styles, OpenType even have a workaround for this, so fonts with more styles can appear as multiple families in such applications (e.g. Foo, Foo Light, Foo Black, etc). On Linux and macOS we use APIs that has no such limitation, so a document made on Windows would be using font family Foo Light and style Regular, but on Linux or macOS we want family Foo and style Light. There are two ways to fix this whole mess: 1) Forgo Windows/MS Office compatibility and find a way to get the real family and style on Windows. 2) Enforce the compatibility contains on Linux and macOS and use the same family and style names as on Windows. On the technical side, solution 1) means using name ID 1 for family and ID 2 for style, and solution 2) means using IDs 16 and 17 (and falling back to IDs 1 and 2 if they are missing). It shouldn’t be hard to implement either of these two solutions, but I don’t know whose call is to make this decision.
(In reply to خالد حسني from comment #61) > This is basically a Windows/MS Office compatibility issue. I disagree, see argument below. > On Windows we use GDI Considering that GDI is a legacy component: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_Device_Interface we should probably not be using it on Windows, regardless of anything else. > to get font family and style, and it can only give is > families with max of 4 styles, OpenType even have a workaround for this, so > fonts with more styles can appear as multiple families That's better than nothing, but not good enough, as it creates its own problems - compatibility-wise and by confusing users, with the list of font families no longer containing just font families. > There are two ways to fix this whole mess: > 1) Forgo Windows/MS Office compatibility and find a way to get the real > family and style on Windows. > 2) Enforce the compatibility contains on Linux and macOS and use the same > family and style names as on Windows. That's not true. We can _keep_ Windows/MS-Office compatibility, _and_ get the real family, weight and style on Windows, _and_ expose the range of weights to the user, _and_ be compatible with Linux and MacOS. The only "problem" seems to be writing documents intended to be opened in MS-Office. When we do that, we would probably need to sort-kinda keep doing what were doing today, so that MS-Word can use the right font. But that should be addressed at most as a toggle-able save option, not by crippling LibreOffice... PS - Of course that would take some serious low-level work. So an argument such as "this is not a high priority" could perhaps be made.
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #62) > (In reply to خالد حسني from comment #61) > > This is basically a Windows/MS Office compatibility issue. > > I disagree, see argument below. > > > On Windows we use GDI > > Considering that GDI is a legacy component: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_Device_Interface > > we should probably not be using it on Windows, regardless of anything else. That is besides the point, even if we switch to something else, we will need to emulate the old naming scheme otherwise existing documents using it will be broken. > > to get font family and style, and it can only give is > > families with max of 4 styles, OpenType even have a workaround for this, so > > fonts with more styles can appear as multiple families > > That's better than nothing, but not good enough, as it creates its own > problems - compatibility-wise and by confusing users, with the list of font > families no longer containing just font families. > > > There are two ways to fix this whole mess: > > 1) Forgo Windows/MS Office compatibility and find a way to get the real > > family and style on Windows. > > 2) Enforce the compatibility contains on Linux and macOS and use the same > > family and style names as on Windows. > > That's not true. We can _keep_ Windows/MS-Office compatibility, _and_ get > the real family, weight and style on Windows, _and_ expose the range of > weights to the user, _and_ be compatible with Linux and MacOS. > > The only "problem" seems to be writing documents intended to be opened in > MS-Office. When we do that, we would probably need to sort-kinda keep doing > what were doing today, so that MS-Word can use the right font. > > But that should be addressed at most as a toggle-able save option, not by > crippling LibreOffice... Adding more options is dodging the issue (by exposing the internal to the user) not fixing it. It isn’t only MS Office, but versions of LibreOffice on Windows before the fix, and probably other Windows office suites. My inclination is to keep things simple and do it the MS way. But, again, that is not my call.
(In reply to خالد حسني from comment #63) > even if we switch to something else, we will need > to emulate the old naming scheme otherwise existing documents using it will > be broken. We will only need to do that for documents created before the switch to proper recognition of fonts within a family. But in the UI, and new documents, that should not be a problem. I may be wrong about ODF support, though, since I don't know the ODF spec, so if there are issues there, please mention them. > Adding more options is dodging the issue (by exposing the internal to the > user) not fixing it. It is fixing the issue, because it will allow proper handling of multiple variants of font families. Whenever we have a feature which MS Office doesn't - we can either let our files always break in MS-Office (bad), or drop that feature (also bad - features should not be dictated by Microsoft, especially whe they get things wrong), or distinguish somehow between whether we need to save with or without MS compatibility. But actually... perhaps it _is_ possible to save both kinds of information at the same time. i.e. save the MSO-compatible font info we do today, but also save some meta-data that MS doesn't use, but we can use, which tells us what the real font variants are. What do you think? > It isn’t only MS Office, but versions of LibreOffice on > Windows before the fix, and probably other Windows office suites. Yes, these may all need a compatibility mode when saving in MSO-targeting formats. If it's ODF files - it's no different than saving in a newer version of ODF which is unsupported by older versions of LO. > My inclination is to keep things simple and do it the MS way. But, again, > that is not my call. This is a significant missing feature in LO, and was recognized as NEW, so the question IMNSHO is how to best do this, rather than if it should be done. Actually, it goes beyond just that: The choice of some SW makers, in the 1980s or early 1990s, to arbitrarily force the 2x2 style space, is a historic blunder. It needs to be fixed in all personal computing applications. Our not fixing this is holding back others as well, and is mis-educating users about fonts.
... and one final point is that fixing this offers an advocacy advantage vs MS-Office: It will let us say "LibreOffice offers you fine control over font weight while MS Office only supports Bold/not Bold". Now, sure, that's not some killer feature - but it's very easy to _understand_.
Fair points, but that is much more work than I can afford. The simple option is something I think can be done relatively easily, so if no one is going to do the more complex work, that is still better than the inconsistent status quo. Also, to make sure this is clear, both options allow using all styles of the font option 1) you get: Foo Light Light Italic Thin Thin Italic Regular Italic Medium Medium Italic Bold Bold Italic Black Black Italic While with option 2) you get: Foo Regular Italic Bold Bold Italic Foo Light Regular Italic Foo Thin Regular Italic Foo Medium Regular Italic Foo Black Regular Italic
(In reply to خالد حسني from comment #66) > Also, to make sure this is clear, both options allow using all styles of the > font option 1) you get: > > Foo > Light > Light Italic > Thin > Thin Italic > Regular > Italic > Medium > Medium Italic > Bold > Bold Italic > Black > Black Italic > Actually, possibly more, see e.g.: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/font-weight in terms of weight, there are: 100 Thin (Hairline) 200 Extra Light (Ultra Light) 300 Light 400 Normal (Regular) 500 Medium 600 Semi Bold (Demi Bold) 700 Bold 800 Extra Bold (Ultra Bold) 900 Black (Heavy) 950 Extra Black (Ultra Black) and double that by 2, potentially, for an italic variant, or maybe 3 for slanted? etc. Now, this also relates to the question of artificial italicization or emboldening. In theory, a font could specify the logic for setting arbitrary weights between 1 and 1000 (at least, CSS4 supports this). There is the question of whether to expose only variants available apriori, or also artificially-obtainable; and how to expose them (e.g. is it a list of all variants, or do we separate weights from other aspects).
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #67) > (In reply to خالد حسني from comment #66) > > Also, to make sure this is clear, both options allow using all styles of the > > font option 1) you get: > > > > Foo > > Light > > Light Italic > > Thin > > Thin Italic > > Regular > > Italic > > Medium > > Medium Italic > > Bold > > Bold Italic > > Black > > Black Italic > > > > Actually, possibly more This was just an example!
I believe users expect a boldness and a slantness category. Today it's on/off for B and I but could become a togglemenubutton with the average bold value for on and all variants in the dropdown, respectively for italic. IIUC, the font can even be on a interval scale. Meaning we have to allow a setting per spinbox or scalebutton, which restricts it to the dialog. Users should apply PS/CS rather than direct formatting anyway. And B/I in the toolbar could just enable/disable the defined boldness/slantness for this PS/CS. (In reply to خالد حسني from comment #61) > It shouldn’t be hard to implement either of these two solutions, but I don’t > know whose call is to make this decision. First of all the users by giving input on the ticket. Then the ESC by agreeing to a compromise or by deciding between two options. But ultimately it's the doer who decides.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #69) > I believe users expect a boldness and a slantness category. Just reminding us that slanted/oblique and italic are two different things: https://creativepro.com/typetalk-italic-vs-oblique/ ... and a font family can theoretically have either, or both. Or - can it? It may or may not surprise you to know, that in Hebrew typesetting, there's no such thing as an "italic" form; and that doesn't exist in Arabic either. In fact, that's only relevant to Latin fonts. As for slanting - that is always possible, but is _very strongly_ discouraged for Hebrew, and never ever used in any professional typography; it's just not done. I assume the same is true for Arabic, Farsi and Urdu (Khaled or Hossein may know more). The fact that Microsoft got people used to there being an [I] button is simply another way they were being careless/lazy. It was simply a mistake, which has led to many users of MS-Office to produce horrid printed documents which are simply horrid. In fact, users need to "un-learn" the use of "italic" and "slanted" in Hebrew and Arabic (and users of Latin languages should be more aware of the difference between slanting and italic).
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #70) > Just reminding us that slanted/oblique and italic are two different things: > > [...] > > ... and a font family can theoretically have either, or both. Or - can it? It's pretty rare, but yes, there exists font families that have both italic and oblique sub-fonts. A web search gives me Supria Sans [1] as an example. Also I don't know why you are using oblique and slanted/slantness as synonyms in this discussion. I am merely a hobbyist of font design, but AFAIK both italic and oblique fonts are considered slanted variants of the upright/roman ones. And the upright/italic/oblique style differences are usually called slantness of the font. 1. https://www.myfonts.com/collections/supria-sans-font-hvd-fonts
(In reply to Ming Hua from comment #71) > (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #70) > > ... and a font family can theoretically have either, or both. Or - can it? > It's pretty rare, but yes, there exists font families that have both italic > and oblique sub-fonts. A web search gives me Supria Sans [1] as an example. By "can it" I just meant that in many non-Latin alphabets it can be said that you can't have either. (Even though technically you can define it and it'll work). > Also I don't know why you are using oblique and slanted/slantness as > synonyms in this discussion. I think I'm used to such usage because it's common in the TeX world, see: https://tex.stackexchange.com/q/68931/5640 but I agree that this might be confusing, so - apologies.
> AFAIK both italic and oblique fonts are considered slanted variants of the upright/roman ones As a matter of fact things are more complicated: there are fonts that include italic variants that are not slanted. Formally for some fonts "it is possible to have 'upright italic' designs that have a cursive style but remain upright". In other words, italics is about the letter shape not the slant, even if the large majority of italic fonts have slanted letters. As an example, Knuth's Computer Modern has an upright italics. A more modern example is the Literata font that was commissioned by Google for Play Books.